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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

MN Jury - need perspective on potential paranoia

202 replies

ParanoidPrue · 14/02/2012 22:57

Right here goes - longtime MNer (although recently more lurking than posting) namechanging for some no holds barred, arse-kicking, truly impartial MN advice.

H and I married 14 years, 3 kids, fairly up and down marriage - typical rollercoaster - when it's good it's great, when it's not good it's really really shit. Dynamic shifted some six years ago whilst pregnant with DC1 when I discovered H had embarked on a fairly nasty text-messaging EA with a woman he met through work. Started when I was 7 mths pregnant, discovered when DC1 was four months old. Carried on for another six or seven months until I found a hidden phone by which time it had stopped. H at the time swore blind it was text messages only, I later discovered sometime after the birth of DC2 that he also telephoned her numerous times a day. He said he only met her once. We moved on ..sort of..had an unplanned DC3. During that time, there have been a couple of occasions when I've found questionnable texts. Rightly or wrongly, I've been checking up on him and both times caught it in the early stages. H is somewhat of a ladies man - I want to say was a ladies man but of course evidence shows that he still considers himself to be so.

There's the background - may be irrelevant but wanted to show H's history. Current situation is this - H and I fostered a friendship with a girl from the local nursery whilst I was pregnant with DC3 - let's call her Jane. She was DC2's keyworker and loved him to bits. H bought her flowers on her birthday (without discussing with me beforehand) and I thought nothing of it because he's fairly generous especially where he thinks kids may benefit. We decided to ask her to babysit DCs whilst I was in hospital. Rang her on the night i went into labour - she cancelled her plans and H picked her up and brought her round. She stayed with kids whilst H took me to hospital. He stayed with me a couple of hours and then went home - to be fair, they told him to. I thought nothing of it at the time. He was going to come first thing in the morning. We had discussed many times that I'd prefer he be with the kids and I would be fine on my own. In the event, he did come the next morning albeit five minutes after I gave birth.

Jane continued to come round ostensibly to see me and the kids. H would collect her and drop her home. He would literally be minutes in the car and often took one of the kids with him when doing this. We discussed that she was a bit of a pain in that she would often invite herself over and then stay far beyond her welcome (along the lines of until 1am in the morning when DC3 was a few weeks old). However we thought she was maybe lonely having not long broken up with her long-term bf.

DC and I went on hols with my parents when DC3 was about 8 months old. H couldn't come as he'd just started new job. We were only away a week but on my return I had texts from Jane asking to come over the following weekend which she did. H was totally different - he didn't offer to collect her or indeed drop her home. He went upstairs and had a bath and then went out. He has never done this with either Jane or indeed any of my friends. No matter how much of a twat he's being to me, he's always been super polite and welcoming to our guests and bent over backwards to see to their needs to the extent that I sometimes feel a bit redundant. Not the case on this occasion - he basically gave Jane the cold shoulder. After I took her home, I did tackle him on it and asked if something was up. He was so weird and dismissive that I really couldn't fathom why he behaved that why.

I shouldn't have but of course I did check his phone and lo and behold there were a number of text message exchanges between them, including one call from her to his phone at midnight. I went absolutely batshit crazy. Not least because he had deleted some of the texts - the ones left were fairly innocuous but still, the fact that he hadn't shared this with me even when I tackled him on his odd behaviour and had deleted some of the exchange left a very very bad taste in my mouth.

His attitude was to treat me as some mad crazy bitch who was making up stuff in her head. We tried to talk about it a number of times - our relationship went to hell. I did say to him on numerous occasions that I didn't think anything had happened not least because he had given her the cold shoulder the last time she visited. I asked specifically why she would call at midnight knowing he was alone. He said that he had no idea - he'd been half asleep so had just made excuses and hung up. Sounds plausible but his insistence that Jane was just a innocent young girl who'd simply made an error in judgement ringing him so late infuriated me for some reason. We stopped talking about it ..well, basically because we stopped talking. Only recently have we been slowly getting back on track after a particularly nasty argument a few weeks back.

Okay this is very long but to get to the crux of what advice I need...in a nutshell! Jane has only texted me once in the last four months (since our holiday) to ask to come over. She has texted H and telephoned him about three times, the last time saying that she couldn't get hold of me. H rang her back and left her a voicemail on one occasion when he got short shrift from me for making apologies for me as if I was being unreasonable. So far as I know, he's ignoring her (I'm no longer checking his phone). Last week, I deleted Jane from FB - firstly because the whole thing is doing my fucking head in and secondly because she had some godawful link to a photoalbum named "Cockalicious" or something equally tasteless. DC1 (7) often reads over my shoulder and I don't fancy answering that question. She's obviously twigged and has, in the space of two hours tonight, texted me twice, rang me and sent me a private fb message.

So what the fucking fuck do I do? Am I totally mad? Should I be apologising to Jane and to H for being some mad old paranoid bint? I'd come to terms with the fact that I was never going to know exactly what happened whilst I was away but I was pretty sure H wouldn't be such a fucking plonker to shit on his own doorstep and be willing to throw our relationship away which is what would happen if I caught him doing anything (and I mean anything) untoward again. My gut says ignore her messages and delete delete delete. But part of me wonders whether I should meet her and just let her know why I'm not interested in pursuing a friendship with her. She's old enough (21 yrs) to know what's appropriate and even though she certainly may have a crush on H going on her past behaviour, she should know that I'm not exactly going to just brush that under the carpet.

Anyway - if you've managed to read this far, congratulations - give yourself a shiney!

OP posts:
ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 14:03

Porca - that made me proper guffaw - yes, fuck the skanky bitch (maybe I should go on jerry springer)! Yes I agree re: the relationships advice sometimes. That's why I posted in AIBU - because I wanted the stark truth however bleak that may be. I must admit I'm surpised at everyone being so nice - it's a lot more supportive in AIBU than I gave it credit for!

OP posts:
ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 14:05

I don't feel sorry for your Dad RVF - I think your Mum sounds amazing! That's what I hope for myself eventually - for H and I to be friends and co-parents without all this emotional guff getting in the way. Of course I'll need to buy a vibrator or something but that's a different thread....

OP posts:
RVF400 · 15/02/2012 14:13

well it did take around 10 yrs for them to get there Paranoid, but it is sooooo much better. The biggest thing that changed in that time is not my dad (he will never change) but my mum's state of mind. She is a saint.

ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 14:18

RVF - do you mind if I ask you what you meant when you said "His anger, controlling nature and lack of respect"? It's just that I do sometimes wonder whether the way H acts towards me has an impact on my self-esteem. I'm loathe to blame him totally because I know I was a pretty messed up people-pleaser before I met him. What sort of stuff did your Dad do that made your Mum lose confidence other than the cheating?

OP posts:
Shutupanddrive · 15/02/2012 14:22

Glad your going to have it out with her OP, hopefully you will get the truth. Don't let her fob you off saying its nothing, as you know her behaviour is inappropriate.

RVF400 · 15/02/2012 14:33

Mainly telling her she was stupid. Not necessarily as bluntly as that, there are lots of subtle ways, like "no, let me speak to them directly, I want to make sure it all goes to plan", "what did you do that for?! oh, well if you want a job doing properly, do it yourself" plus of course the direct "don't be ridiculous, you're paranoid" whenever she confronted him directly re. cheating. He was also very secretive and controlling regarding finances (she was a SAHM) but that might be a separate issue. He always gave her enough, but she always had to ASK for it which I hated. In fact, that's one of the reasons they still haven't divorced (an entirely different thread.....).
The closer she got to the truth the angrier he got, and the more he told my mum she was being stupid.
It got to a point where she actually believed she "wasn't that bright". She would tell me that she "wasn't very clever so it was best to ask dad" (?!) if I had homework questions or similar.

Cherriesarelovely · 15/02/2012 14:37

Been reading your post OP and really feel bad for you what an absolutely horrible situation to be in, you don't deserve it. My god, you are so not being paranoid, that is the first thing I want to say, but I think you know that.

Something either went on with your H and Jane otherwise there would be no strange texts or over enthusiastic contact from her. You are wise to trust your instincts here. As another poster said earlier, the bottom line is that even if your H hasn't actually cheated this time he is clearly interested in making people think that he is available and while his is in that mindset he cannot be trusted.

I have been in a slightly similar situation to yours with my ex P but before DCs. Obviously we broke up a long time ago but ironically ex P then cheated on the OW who came crying to me about it! Mmmmmmmm! She didn't see the irony of the situation at all but I did and I have to say I enjoyed it!

RVF400 · 15/02/2012 14:38

oh, just read "people-pleaser". guess what, that completely describes my mum. Hmm
even now she worries about what impact the things she does might have on my dad. argh. i sometimes feel i need a massive rubber mallet to bash it into her head: look after YOURSELF first. (love her to bits btw)

ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 14:39

Oh RVF - your poor Mum. No wonder she's a lot better since she got away from that. I must say that H is not really like that - sometimes what he does smacks of controlling behaviour on things he feels he's expert on (like cooking) but equally I can be just as controlling on things I feel I'm expert on (like the kids). The stupid thing is this year we've reached a happy medium on both those issues and other related ones and we actually seem to be working as a team more. Of course the chemistry/sex/personal affection has gone down the toilet since I returned from holiday and that's what I'm so umming and aahing about really. I suppose my real AIBU should be - am I expecting too much from H when I want him to be really focussed on ME rather than pleasing himself.

God, I'm rambling now - must get off MN and make a start on my day properly!! This is why I limited myself to lurking - this place sucks you back in once you start posting!

OP posts:
ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 14:42

Thank you Cherries - I'm nodding a lot at your post. I love the passive aggressive sympathy you gave OW

RVF - just think of yourself as your Mum's hackle brake - when she even dreams of trying to please your Dad you can do some arse-kicking of your own!

OP posts:
RVF400 · 15/02/2012 14:48

glad to hear it. Just make sure you look after yourself and get the answers you need, what your H and Jane (and anyone else) thinks of you is by the by.

SuePurblybilt · 15/02/2012 14:56

Agree with meeting her, saying 'Dh and I have been talking A LOT, do you want to tell me your side of the story?'.
Good luck.

Cherriesarelovely · 15/02/2012 15:04

FWIW OP I may be flamed for saying this but with regard to your feelings about your H being "the one" etc, I do understand. I still like my ex and we have a friendship but I would not trust her (we are gay, obviously!) further than I could throw her! I have been in my new relationship for 7 years and am absolutely, completely secure, fulfilled and in love. I see my ex as a fun, interesting person who is nice to have as a friend but not someone I could ever see as a partner again. I think once you get to that point where you have had enough there is no going back from that. I completely agree that if you really don't trust someone then there IS no relationship.

Cherriesarelovely · 15/02/2012 15:07

I completely remember that "detatched" feeling that you wrote about. I recall being in hospital with some weird virus and just having this total epiphany after years of being miserable with my ex. The day I got home i just calmly told her it was over and that I actually realised she did not, deep down, want to be in the relationship. I didn't even feel particularly upset. The end was in fact a relief and much easier to cope with than the crap I had endured building up to it, the cheating, the lies, etc. Sorry, this is not about me. Just trying to empathise, I know that we are all different!

ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 15:11

Sue - that's a good one

No no Cherries - don't apologise. It's all good to hear - it helps to hear from those who've gone through the process and come out the other side. I'm not sure I've had my epiphany yet - I keep thinking I have and then I get sucked back in to what feels like a total emotional black hole. I think tonight might be it though - although that may be more about me making it that rather than it actually being that, if you see what I mean.

I really will log off now - I'm totally wasting nap time here rambling like a crazy person with all you lovely people listening and holding my hand. Will steel myself up for tonight (provided H is home in time) and then log back on later to update (will be after bedtime though). Thanks all x

OP posts:
TheJiminyConjecture · 15/02/2012 22:05

How'd it go Prue?

DodieSmith · 15/02/2012 22:07

Yes, been wondering if you plucked p the courage...

rhondajean · 15/02/2012 22:15

Hope it went well x

ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 22:48

Hi all - well, I did indeed pluck up the courage to see her. Thanks to all you lovely ladies, I tried my hardest not to give her the chance to call DH and sort out a story. I just turned up on her doorstep when she came home from work and then had a chat with her in the car....

I started off by saying that I wanted to talk to her about something a bit awkward and then said that after she had left our place immediately following our holiday, I found out she had been exchanging texts and phoning H whilst the kids and I were away. She said yes she had but that there hadn't been much by way of text conversation - she had texted him a couple of times asking when we were back and he had texted her once (he deleted all but one of those texts) and he had phoned her a couple of times because he said he hates texting. I asked why she thought it was appropriate to call H at midnight. She seemed really shocked and said that she had a missed call from him at 5pm but was with a friend and when she returned, she thought she'd give him a ring.

She said immediately that now that I had pointed it out it did look really suspect. She asked me what I thought had gone on and I asked her whether she had anything to tell me as I'd already spoken to H about it. (I didn't say any further detail on that). She said that from her part she never ever considered H as a romantic possibility - apparently he's far too old for her and simply not her type "Yuck" I think were her actual words! She said she knows what it looks like though and if anything had happened that week, it would have been totally stupid for her to invite herself round the following weekend. "Yuck yuck yuck" again were the actual words. Apparently the midnight phonecall was for exactly 15 minutes (she showed me on her phone - I didn't know you could do that) and when I asked her what on earth she was talking about for 15 minutes, she said H did most of the talking rambling on about some annoying bloke at work and then quite abruptly ended the phonecall.

I asked her to explain why he didn't want to see her that weekend she came over. She said she didn't know but he had called her two days after to say that I had told him he behaved weirdly and he hoped he didn't offend her in any way. She just presumed that he was having a bad day. She said that she had tried to call the landline a few times during the four months we hadn't spoken but hadn't tried very hard as I have a track record of not answering texts (which is true) and her default position was always to text H and tell him to tell me to ring her (which is also true).

She asked if our friendship was over because of what she had done by ringing H at midnight. I said it wasn't much of a friendship if she hadn't considered my feelings enough to think about whether that was an appropriate thing to do. She started crying so I felt really awful but I channelled all of you and just looked out the window She said she would understand if I didn't want her around the house or around H but would I consider having a coffee with her when I felt up to it. I said I'd think about it but for now, what I needed was space and time to consider whether or not I had a marriage worth saving.

She was visibly shocked when I said that and asked if I would split up with H over this. I said that it wasn't just this but his general sense of being completely inappropriate where other women were concerned. I told her he had form and she was horrified - she said she thought he was all talk and that he loved me. I said no - he's a cheating lying bastard and although you're the first woman I've ever confronted you're the last in a long line who had got caught up in it (I shouldn't have said that, should I??). She kept saying that she considered both of us to be family and she didn't realise he was like that. I didn't really know what to say - I wasn't about to discuss the fact that he's a cheating lying twat with ehr so I just said I needed to go home and that was that.

I've said nothing to H. So far as I know, he isn't aware that I met up with her although later tonight I did ask if he had anything to tell me and he said "Ummm yes" and I just waited and he said "well, what about?" and I said "you tell me". His response "Um yes, Jane called me today?" I said "Oh really she called you, interesting" and he said "ummm, yes, I called her back because I was driving". He said he told her that DC were ill and I was up to my eyes in it and she would defo come over when it was all over. I asked him why he didn't tell me about the phonecall and he laughed nervously and said "Because you're scary when you're angry". Needless to say I didn't laugh. I just reminded him that I'd asked him to please ignore her phonecalls and he clearly wasn't doing that. He said that he didn't want to upset the situation and I responded that he didn't want to upset Jane but didn't seem to mind upsetting me. We bantered a bit more but I couldn't be bothered with it so went off to put kids to bed.

I'm too tired to analyse this tonight - I don't know what to fucking think. I've a nasty feeling I'm continuing to be duped, at least by H. It seems likely that he was the one pursuing a bit of attention if nothing else. Either way the lying just compounded the error and now our marriage is down the shitter because he doesn't know how to tell the truth.

OP posts:
GoingForGoalWeight · 15/02/2012 22:55

I'm so sorry I know we are strangers and I wasn't there this evening, but my instinct (which can be wrong) is they are both lying. You seem such a lovely woman. You do not deserve ALL THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jane and DH are lying *&%^$%

Angry on your behalf xxxxxx

DodieSmith · 15/02/2012 22:59

I told her he had form and she was horrified

Hmmm. That would make me suspicious. Though it's really hard to judge and I fear that by commenting we're maybe just stirring? Have you told him you've seen her?

Cherriesarelovely · 15/02/2012 23:06

Sorry OP, a horrible night for you indeed. Well done for having the courage to confront Jane though. Obviously it is impossible to say exactly what went on but as you say your H's behaviour is incredibly shifty.....hers too. He is keeping something to himself that is for sure. Very sorry you are having to put up with this it is hideous.

ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 23:07

Going - really. Oh poo. I agree it's hard to judge over the interweb but believe me, pretty hard to judge even in person!

Dodie - no, I haven't told him I've seen her just that I know he called her today and left it there.

I'm sorry guys I'm so tired and really inexplicably weepy so I'm going to try to get some sleep - have a long drive tomorrow. I really am at sixes and sevens about this so if I go quiet it's because I'm (a) caught up in rl stuff and (b) sick to the back teeth of the whole goddamned thing.

Sad
OP posts:
GoingForGoalWeight · 15/02/2012 23:11

It is OK Prue we;re here when you need us! You did good deed today, on your journey of truth. I wonder if DH knows where you were tonight. Get some sleep soon.

georgethecat · 15/02/2012 23:19

I'm sorry you are feeling so awful but well done for confronting her, it sounds as though you kept your cool.
Agree with others - difficult to judge the situation from internet without stirring. However, I expect it had the effect of scaring the bejesus out of her whether it be poor boundaries at the very best or something more at the very worst. She will think twice unless she is a total idiot.
I hope you have got some support in RL or you can go to relate by yourself to work out next steps to mend or end relationship.
Take care
x

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