To feel really let down by dd.

[MissSayuri]

I am coming to the end of my studies and will graduate with a PhD this summer. The graduation dates have just been released and dd has told me she can't make it. She can't make it because her dad is taking her to a music festival that weekend. The ceremony is on the Monday and the festival ends on the sunday night. My partner offered to go and collect her on the sunday night (a 200 mile round trip, her dad doesn't drive) but she refused saying that there are good parties through the night on the sunday or something which she doesn't want to miss. I won't admit it to her, but I am really hurt.

Or it could be that KittyFane got a bit pissed off at running around like a blue-arsed fly managing everything for years whilst her DH studied.
She may not have an issue with 'bettering yourself' but possibly feels that her DH bettered himself whilst ignoring some of the needs of dependents.
What if he was an amazing sportsperson, spending hours at the track or field to be the best of the best whilst she worked and raised the children?
Would that be as admirable and would you see her as resenting sporting prowess?
Because to assume that she has a problem with FE from her post is theorising of the wildest sort.
Have you actually talked to your daughter in real words yet, or are you still in the discussion on MN phase?

Dandelionss apologies, I didn'tmean to misquote you. Thank you for the clarification. Is still can't agree with you though!

I can only speak about my own relationship with my parents. I absolutely feel that I owe them for the love and care that they bestowed on me! They made me the person I am today and I am obliged to them because of that. Mumsnet threads regularly remind me how fortunate I have been to have had the parents and upbringing I had.

I do owe them. Not in a soul crushingly, toxic way - but certainly it means that at the very least I try to consider their feelings and participate or show interest in events or projects that are important to them. My DH and I believe most of my friends feel the same way - I hadn't realised this was unusual?

As I mentioned before my own children are only little but even at their age they celebrate my modest achievements. Their pride in me fills my heart and makes me feel loved and appreciated - I really don't think that's "a worryingly needy frame of mind" or even especially unusual.

As to "why does the OP want her DD to be there" I'm actually quite shocked that should even need an explanation.

I realise that not all families operate in quite the same way but the OP describes her family as loving and close and in the habit of celebrating together. To me this seems quite natural.

The OP clearly loves her daughter very much and is extremely proud of her. She hadn't said anything nasty about her DD at all. She isn't planning to make her DD feel bad about this situation or to emtionally blackmail her. She's simply feeling blue about that fact that the person who she loves most in all the world hasn't chosen to prioritise celebrating the culmination of many years hard work with her. She posted here looking for a wee bit of sympathy and support.

MissSayuri I've got to get some sleep now but just wanted to say - hang on to that ticket, she may still change her mind.

MissSayuri you seem very reluctant to deal with the points I have raised. Perhaps they're a bit close to the bone? Ah well, I'm off to bed now, but will check back in the morning.

Absolutely Dustin :)

DH's studies didn't leave me with a bitter pill to swallow 95% of the time as it goes but I know what you're saying as we came across a fair number of academics for whom research was number 1, over and above DP and DC.

Nothing you have said is close to the bone. The issue with her dad is irrelevant. We don't have a toxic relationship in that sense and many times in the past she has called me to pick her up early from her dad's to see friends or whatever and neither he or she has expressed disappointment with that. There is no dilemma, as no pressure has been exerted on her from either party. Neither her dad nor me squabble over her time, she's nearly 17, it would be a bit embarrassing if we did I think! Her being there with him is not the issue at all as I suspect the same situation would have arisen had she been at the festival with her friends. I actually wish I hadn't mentioned who she would be at the festival with in the OP as it's not remotely part of the problem.

Oh I dunno Kitty, I still remember doing 10 impossible things before breakfast and screeching at my own beloved daughter 'Which one of us has a double first in XXX and which one of us is making breakfast?'
She had stepped over her father who was reading academic stuff on the floor in order to ask me a homework question or six on his subject.
Yes, we have been happily married for years. Yes, sometimes I get pissed off. No long term resentment, but sometimes I do want to kick him. gently. In the arse. PhD and all.

She had stepped over her father who was reading academic stuff on the floor in order to ask me a homework question or six on his subject.
Oh $?+¥> Dustin* that happens here too! :o
:o

Have you ever put the tablecloth over the layer of books and papers and served dinner anyway?
Been trying to demold the bathroom ceiling whilst he's describing Etruscan pottery to you?
How can one be bitter? The insanity and disassociation of the true academic is too entertaining.

I'm big on doing family things, generally. It does teenagers no harm to realise there are other people in the world.

But a graduation ceremony? Blimey. Dull as! And really not particularly momentous IMO. I have lots of pictures of weddings and parties and christenings. None of graduations.

I suppose I just don't understand why this graduation ceremony is important to you. I know it is, I can see it is, but I don't understand why it is.

Dustin (we need a whole section on this!)
'Disassociation' ! My DH is an expert!

Just reading through the latest posts and began to wonder - what if MissSayuri's DD hadn't got anything else happening that weekend... would she have wanted to go along to the ceremony if there was no conflicting arrangement?
We once insisted on taking our then 17yr old DS on holiday as had been planned rather than leave him at home whilst we were away for 10 days, which he would have preferred. Never again. It would have been less stressful to stay home and forgo the holiday despite the disappointment for the rest of the family.
Any event where there is a very reluctant attendee is a disaster zone in my experience. Either they want to be there (great) or they don't (in which case don't coerce).
It is sad, because we wish others could see our perspective and be happily there in supportive mode. Turning up dutifully, or out of guilt, will not make for a pleasant time, unfortunately. C'est la vie.

OP, I am with you, but think you are coming across as a bit defensive and dismissive on this thread.

I do think you are making a bit of a drama of all of this. You feel strongly that she should come. Tell her that then! No point expecting a teenager to read your mind.

Why didn't you take her for your master's graduation? This inclusive thing is taught early on. If she had attended your previous graduations, she may have automatically expected that she would attend this one too. And you wouldn't be agonising here.

Why on earth do you expect your phd ceremony to be of interest to a teenager? It is your phd (congratulations), not hers!

It is pretty damn weird to expect her to curtain her music festival to come and see you neigh and bow to receive a piece of paper. Get a grip and let her enjoy her life.

I bet she is happy it is over, cant have been much fun to have a mum dedicated to educating herself for the best part of her life! But hey ho.

chalet I did loads of things for my parents when I was a teen out of a sense of duty - attending relatives weddings, birthdays, their dinner parties for friends...and other stuff I probably don't remember now.

But I did not misbehave or sulk. It simply was not done. Getting teens to do things pleasantly for others is teaching them an important lifeskill, of how to be graceful and considerate human beings.

No wonder I see more and more sullen university students, with limited social skills outside their peer groups. Their parents must have expected very little from them, and excused their tantrums as 'teen' behaviour.

And this is not only 'in my time' sort of thing. Thinking of some of the young university students I interact with, the more mature, sunny attitude ones seem to have had more responsibilities at home.

I participate in a programme where some 19 year olds from my alma mater university travel with me for three weeks, and I get to know them quite well. The more mature ones have more family responsibilities - e.g., cooking the family dinners as mum is working, taking care of younger siblings etc. I think their parents expect more of them, and these kids deliver and think it is the 'norm' to pitch in, instead of sulking because they had to be considerate to others.

No I think getting a PHD is undermining to a girl who has just taken GCSEs. I don't blame her.

It doesn't sound like it interests her much (your daughter). I wouldn't fall out about it though, some people are into ceremony and others are not. It doesn't mean she isn't proud of you and happy for your achievement.

Best not celebrate the GCSEs though goodasgold, in case you undermine someone younger who has just learned to write their name

Congrats on your PHD but I also think you are being a bit overdramatic about it. Then again, I'm another one who didn't go to my own graduation ceremony...

Its not being selfish to hope that someone else will be selfless.

Not sure I agree. To expect someone else drops their long established plans purely for the benefit of someone else. It is a little selfish. Not that I am actually saying anything is wrong with a little bit of selfishness. We all need to be selfish at times or we would just be doormats.

I love festivals and am afraid this puts me on your daughters side on this one. She is going to be gutted. She wasn't expected to attend the last two graduations but is expected to attend this one even though it conflicts with a previous engagement.

I think if you understood she was too young to attend the last two you should understand she doesn't want to change her plans for you.

Like I say I am biased and am getting all nostalgic about my festival days. You and your daughter are clearlmakers of tougher stuff than me. I can manage one sleepless drunken night but three is a row took me ages to get over.

I honestly think if you make her come she will be too exhausted on the day and you won't appreciate her prescence.

Oops clearly made of tougher stuff (probably better at proof reading too)

If your daughter is aware of these feelings:

I'm disappointed that she hasn't recognised how momentous this is for me.
The main issue here, for me, is that it would mean a great deal to me for her to be there and sometimes in life we need to do things we don't really want to because it pleases our loved ones

Then saying this:

There is no dilemma, as no pressure has been exerted on her from either party.

Cannot be altogether true.

A great deal of pressure comes from carrying a burden of guilt.

She can't make it because her dad is taking her to a music festival that weekend.

Well yes you certainly did confuse the issue. Are you now saying she would be going to the festival whether or not her dad was taking her? Is he just taking her there, so she can meet up with friends, and it's nothing whatsoever to do with any commitment she made to her dad?

Because once again you seem to have decided she is simply being selfish and not considering your feelings, completely ignoring the possibility that she might feel bad about breaking a commitment to spend the weekend with her dad.

'...just this once I'd like her to think of what her actions would mean to another person in the family.'

Please don't say this out loud to her. 'Just this once???' You said earlier she's normally not selfish, please don't guilt trip her.

I agree she's in a dilemma, caught between two parents. I'm quite taken aback you can't see that.

Well, if there's anything this thread demonstrates it's that different people assign wildly different values to graduation ceremonies. That being the case, how come the OP expects her daughter to know how important it is to her without telling her?

(I went to my mother's PhD ceremony when I was 17. I was proud of her, but God it was dull - a much nicer memory is of her coming back from her viva, saying 'I passed!' and my father rushing out to get champagne :))