... to think my almost 11 year old DDs should be able to sit in a restaurant and converse with their parents/grandparents without electronic games/phones/stuff to do?

[sandyballs]

DH thinks I am and wanted to hand over his i-phone to 'keep them amused'. They are nearly 11 FFS not 5. To be fair they do normally behave nicely in restaurants but last night they were bloody awful, it was embarrassing. It was MILs birthday and the DDs wriggled and moaned and pulled faces, one got under the table . I had to separate them.

They're off to secondary school in Sept so surely they should be able to spend a couple of hours in a restaurant chatting to the family without behaving like a couple of arses.

I was well practiced at behaving nicely while bored by 11 (church, classical concerts and being an only child all contributed) and regarded myself as an interesting semi-adult dining companion anyway!

I'd have expected to be included in the conversation most of the time and been quietly bored in between. I was probably more demanding than I remember but mostly in a trying to join in way. I certainly knew I had to behave properly for other people, and that if it was their occasion that effort had to be made to make it nice for them, even if they could be difficult or annoying (Grandma)!

Now I've got one for you. If electronic things are bad, but 'colouring in' is good, what about a 'colouring in' app on an iPad?

Is that good or bad?

Isn't there a study that found a day of playing computer games made DC's behaviour deteriorate, because it caused changes in their brain function? I remember a past boyfriend saying that his son at 10yo was visibly twitching he was so hyped up after a 3 hour gaming session. I do wonder what the girls were doing all day at the GP's before the fateful dinner out. I also think that if someone (whatever their age) can't be parted from an electronic device for a couple of hours then it is becoming an obsession.

A lot of families have found that a technology free day makes a big difference to the way they all relate to each other and behaviour in general.

well i dont allow reading at the table as it has always been considered rude, if you think it worked for her to sit quietly reading so you could pay attention to your younger child then thats your call i guess. yes she was sat quietly but could she not have chatted to your dh?

i just think that sitting immersed in a book at a table is bad manners, to me sitting around and eating is a social thing and not where you would sit and read and effectively ignore those you are eating with. i guess it depends how you view mealtimes, or what you want from your mealtimes? i dont want, nor expect silence, but i do think its perfectly reasonable to expect my children to sit and and chat politely and that is what they do.

At least with an iPad I'm not scrambling under the table looking for felt pen tops, sharpeners etc.

A 35 year old under the table, now that is VERY BAD. A lot worse then an 11 year old.

well i dont have an ipad, and if i did i wouldnt be letting my children use it, in the same way they dont play with my mobile phone, i think that many of the electronic devices like these are unnecessary for small children and we do have a ds and xbox etc but they are not owned by any one child they belong to the family, are shared and we limit screen time. evil mother.

4madboys - dh wasn't there. I spent most of the time chatting to the very nice italian waiter (it was quiet in the restaurant).

Writing on slate, writing on scrolls, writing on paper, now writing on a iPad. It's just a progression of the times with live in, nothing intrinsically bad.

LeqQueen no nothing wrong with reading a book, especially if it means that I can chat to the italian waiter

We generally look at the menu, then order the food, so waiting for the food comes after looking at the menu, which will have been taken away by the waiter when we ordered.

YANBU OP.

Although my 14 & 16yr old are only now getting confident at talking to their GPs tbh.

Except youngest one with MIL who kept poking her in the ribs & saying "what´s so funny share the joke"

no not intrinsically bad at all, just dont see the need for 3yr olds to play with them. they do use electronic toys that i feel are age appropriate. so my 12yr old has a kindle and a mobile phone now, we had a ds and an xbox for family use, my 7 and 9yr old are playing on it now but my 3yr old has never played on the ds or the xbox, there is no need, he is 3! and quite happy drawing or playing with toy cars, or dressing up etc as he gets older i am sure he will want a go. none of mine played on games consoles till 5ish? and its only as they got older that they got into it really.

i dont think there is anything intrinsically wrong it them at all, i just think there are more ways for a child to play and they dont NEED to play with them. they have all learnt to use the pc when needed at school and at home, no problems at all so it certainly hasnt held them back in any way.

"even if the food takes 40 minutes to arrive in a restaurant - that time is spent reading the menu, choosing what to eat, discussing each other's choices maybe, chatting together, enjoying a drink...it's a sociable event.

For one person to sit with their nose stuck in a book is very anti-social, surely? I feel the point of eating together (whether in or out) is not to sit quietly but to engage in the situation and chat and pay attention to what is happening around them.

And you won't find a bigger Pro-Reading Despot Mummy than me" exactly le queen!

lequeen i actually agree with you about going to the bathroom! for older children at least, but a recently potty trained 3yr old needs to go when they say they need to go! its rather annoying actually but thankfully in the last few weeks he seems to be grwoing out of it and now jsut before dinner he will say 'just going for a wee check' tbh on that occasion in the restaraunt I should have taken him to the bathrooms before we sat down at the table!

yes ask to keep the menus, and many restaraunt has a seperate dessert menu so my boys will be happy to sit and plan what pudding they would like to have!

i just see mealtimes as a social event.

When I was a child, I suffered. Through church, assorted plays including bleeding bloody Shakespeare , concerts and all sorts of other tedious events.
Children nowadays need to be constantly "entertained".
It sets them up badly for real life.

there is a big emphasis on children 'not getting bored' isnt there! we were allowed to get bored as children and learned to make our own entertainment. like i say we dont have incar entertainment, no dvd players etc and my 5 survive! i actually think its very easy as a parent to become over reliant on elctronic entertainment for children and as great as these gadgets are i dont think its necessarily very healthy nor are they necessary. they are great to have and fun to use, but i think its like eating a bit of everything in moderation and that included electronic toys which seem to be very prevalent and can easily overtake any other form of entertainment which imo is not good...but that is whole other debate!

When I was a kid there was this one chinese restaurant we would go to maybe once a year (the only time we ever ate out) and it was wildly exiting!
The whole experience, the decor, the waiters, the table that spins round-The food!
OK, maybe it's more normal for kids to eat out now, but surely going to a restaurant is a treat that should be savoured.
YANBU.
If they cant behave without being plugged into an electronic device, leave em home next time.

It sounds like they had gone beyond reason and into silliness and when that happens, which hopefully isn't very often, I would personally remove them for a bit (just go for a walk) and separate them (which you did). I might give them my phone to keep them quiet and save face on that occasion, and then be really cross afterwards and explain if they can't act nicely, they can't come/will lose a fun activity.

I do expect my 6 and 8 year old to sit nicely, choose from the menu, drink their drinks and not get up from the table. I play games like I-spy, noughts and crosses, hangman, anything like that if the meal is taking a long time though, and colouring is also great. I don't expect them to join in adult conversation past a few polite exchanges though, they aren't going to be discussing politics or the recession any time soon and I think to expect them to sit like dummies whilst you do so for 50 minutes before any food is a bit much.

Write this one off, explain your rules next time and have a penalty set out for bad behaviour. I'm sure it was a one-off.