... to think my almost 11 year old DDs should be able to sit in a restaurant and converse with their parents/grandparents without electronic games/phones/stuff to do?

[sandyballs]

DH thinks I am and wanted to hand over his i-phone to 'keep them amused'. They are nearly 11 FFS not 5. To be fair they do normally behave nicely in restaurants but last night they were bloody awful, it was embarrassing. It was MILs birthday and the DDs wriggled and moaned and pulled faces, one got under the table . I had to separate them.

They're off to secondary school in Sept so surely they should be able to spend a couple of hours in a restaurant chatting to the family without behaving like a couple of arses.

They were obviously bored, and grown up conversation can be boring. Did you have anything for them to do? Book to read, colouring pens? I would;nt have a problem with them using an iPhone, as long as the volume was down.

I wish I could separate my teenage DCS from iPhone iPad blackberry messenger etc at any time

No by that age they are old enough to join in with adult conversation. What happened before iPhones??

YANBU. But I am assuming they are included in the conversation as well?

YANBU and how embarrassing at a family occasion Were there any mitigating factors? Were they very tired? Or playing up so they'd get the iPhone?

I'd be furious if my 10 year old acted like that - it's bad enough when the 4 and 5 year olds do.

Did you have words with them about spoiling granny's birthday dinner?

YANBU, especially as they normally behave well. Was there anything different about this occasion to make them wriggly? I don't know, restaurant being too crowded maybe? Or just not liking MIL? :o

No they didn't have anything to do. I thought at 11 they could manage without their DS's, phones, etc for a couple of hours for their grandmas birthday. I want them to be able to join in conversations and enjoy eating out, they're not tiny children any more. It wasn't for long. Maybe I do expect too much!

Surely it's rude for kids to sit glues to phones and games at the table? I used to take colouring when they were smaller.

They were tired, we had forgotten to book, thinking it would be fine on a Monday night but the place we wanted to go to was full, so had to drive somewhere else and it was late and everyone was starving. But even so!

You are not expecting too much imo. But do they normally have their phones, DS's, etc with them? If yes then you are expecting too much to expect them to magically transform from sitting and playing games, to sitting and joining in conversations.

We were including them in the conversation. I'm sure they used to be much more articulate and join in, is this the start of the stroppy sullen teens?

I've told them we're getting a babysitter next time and they won't be included. At least one of them admitted she behaved badly and apologised, the other one thought we were making a huge mountain out of a molehill and accused me of being extra grumpy!

We don't take anything for a 3yr old and a 6yr old to entertain themselves with at restaurants. But then good behaviour correlates to XBox time when they get home and they know I mean it when I raise an eyebrow at them.

Upon writing that I realise I'm like Captain Von Trapp

I think at their age they could absolutely be expected to sit nicely and chat politely - or just be well-mannered, eat their food, whatever. I don't take things to entertain DS1. He was offered colouring pencils last week when I took him out for dinner just the two of us and he was mortified!

Most of our meals out involve my mother, not the in laws. My mum has dementia and can be very hard work in public so I do allow the girls to have their DS's or go on my iphone after a while of talking to nana, and repeating themselves, and again, and again , bless her. So I suppose it was different in that respect, but at 11 they should know the difference in the situations, surely?

YANBU, as you say, they are 11, not 5, and should be able to sit at the table, join in the conversation, and behave appropriately. I would have been furious if I were you too OP.

You weren't expecting too much and they were rude, I'm glad one has apologised. It probably is the beginning of teenage PITAness unfortunately! I remember being outrageously rude at adult events at that age.

I mean sitting under the table FFS, at 11. She looks about 14 as she's so tall. I'm sure other diners would assume she had special needs, I would have done.

Can you tell I'm still pissed off about this!

My much younger child is allowed to check the dessert counter after the main meal and that's it.

Surely two kids can chat with each other if not with the adults.

YANBU 11 year olds do not need to take toys or books to a restaurant for entertainment. They should be capable of either chatting or sitting quietly.

And with that type of behaviour they would certainly lose any access to electronics of any kind.

I agree - you're not expecting too much. What on earth did we do before I-phones? My brothers and I would never play up in a restaurant at that age.

However, as lesley33 said, if they are used to having electronic entertainment at a restaurant table, it is a bit harsh to suddenly expect them to transform into polite young people able to hold a conversation over dinner, because they won't know how to do it.

Exactly, they had each other, it's not as if they were the only children there.

I have banned phones, DS and FIFA today. One of them just eye rolled and said 'oh my days, you are just so like random with your punishments'. She sounds about 15. Is it year 6 cockiness? Will year 7 bring her down a peg or two, or will it get worse?

Thanks for all your replies.

We eat at the table at home most evenings and they manage conversations without gadgets, why the difference when we're out, except the timescale I suppose.

If they are not used to making adult conversation and sitting up at table it would have been hard, all the more reason to insist on table manners now.