... to think my almost 11 year old DDs should be able to sit in a restaurant and converse with their parents/grandparents without electronic games/phones/stuff to do?

[sandyballs]

DH thinks I am and wanted to hand over his i-phone to 'keep them amused'. They are nearly 11 FFS not 5. To be fair they do normally behave nicely in restaurants but last night they were bloody awful, it was embarrassing. It was MILs birthday and the DDs wriggled and moaned and pulled faces, one got under the table . I had to separate them.

They're off to secondary school in Sept so surely they should be able to spend a couple of hours in a restaurant chatting to the family without behaving like a couple of arses.

Reading = good

Reading at the table = bad manners

'maybe do some drawing,'

so we are agreeing, you bring something along for them to do, if they like.

for a toddler child yes, for my elder ones my 7, 9 and 12 yr old then no they can sit and chat!

and yes reading at table is bad manners, as is playing with a phone etc.

and yes drawing, colouring, playing with small toy ie those lego mini figures, is more of a social thing, they will sit and talk whilst they do it or show their toy to whoever we are eating out with etc..

You see this is why I see so many badly behaved children in english restaurants. Because they are bored out of their minds.

I would much rather see them sat there reading a book. And if you think that is bad manners, then no wonder there are problems.

I find some of these comment unbelievable. What ever happened to letting children be children. At a restaurant you can wait up to 45 mins+ for your meal to arrive, that doesn't happen at home. I think you are all expecting too much especially from small children, expecting a child of 3-4 to sit for hours is bizarre in my book. Children have a very short attention span and no amount of expectation is going to change that.
OP I think it depends on the conversation as to whether they would join in, chatting to a child about things that interest them is different to adults talking about adult stuff that a 10 year old would find boring.
I'm sure other diners would assume she had special needs, I would have done. I have got say I find this comment disgusting and amazed that no one else has picked up on it.

I think many of you forget that children don't get to choose the restaurant, they don't get to choose the company they go with, they don't get to choose the time, they don't get to choose when they leave. So of course it's far more likely that they will be bored compared to the adults.

"some adults aren't very good at chatting to kids"

That's a good point mummytime. I'm better at it now but I'm never going to succeed in a career as a children's entertainer.

I especially loathe those parents who treat me as an opportunity for their children to hone their social skills.

"we take small toys to entertain little ones that need it, but my elder ones ie 7, 9 and 12 will sit at the table and chat. (maybe i just have very talkative children!)" as i said for little ones, my elder children will sit and chat, look at the menu.

we often eat out with my mil and other relatives, its an important social thing, my kids enjoy it and its a great time for them to sit and chat with relatives about the things they are into at the moment, how their music lessons and school is going or ds2 will ist with his uncle and talk about football etc, there are plenty of things that children will talk about.

ds4 who is 3 will talk about pre-school or his fave thing of the moment be that thundercats or toystory, its nice for his grandma to get to hear about these things as we dont live close enough that we see them more than once a month. equally they will hear about grandmas life, what she has been doing etc.

it is not always particularly great adult conversation ie politics etc, but that comes with age, the point is they are learning how to sit and have conversation.

It is bad manners to read at the dining table. At least it is in the UK, it may not be in Belgium as it could just be a cultural thing.

Children should not find sitting for a meal and engaging in conversation boring.

This is when mumsnet amazes me.

Colouring book = good
reading book = bad.

While I don't think they should have behaved as they did, I think there are certain circumstances when it is perfectly ok for them to be occupied with ds' etc.

We always eat our meals as a family at home and if it just the 4 of us going out for a meal then it is easy to chat amongst ourselves, but if we go out with a larger group of adults then I allow them to take their ds' because I find after a few initial comments to my dc the adults tend to talk amongst themselves either as a whole group or to the person near to them which is very boring for dc.

It isn't done deliberately to exclude dc but usually because the adults haven't seen each other for a while and want to catch up. Also both my dc are fairly shy and ds1 in particular is very softly spoken ( even sat right next to him ) that you can't always hear what he is saying which makes conversation difficult. I am sure by the time he is an adult he will have found his voice but for now we accept that is the way he is.

I wouldn't let mine have a colouring book either belgo

So my dd1 7 reading her book, dd2 reading her book out loud to me, ds colouring in his book at a restaurant last week; two of them were expressing bad manners; ds was not.

How exactly does that make sense?

my children arent badly behaved! it would not be tolerated, they have gone out for meals since they were tiny babies, sometimes we go with friends with children of a similar age, generally we go with relatives, they are pleased to see the children and so WANT to talk to them about their lives, ditto the children are pleased to see their grandma, aunt, uncle whoever and so sit and talk to them.

yes a toddler, younger child needs more entertaining, but its not impossible, like i said we went for a meal recenlty and my 3 yr old sat for the two hours, he chatted, he coloured a bit, he got down once to go to the toilet, but the rest of the time he sat at the table and was happy to do so. there were my 5 children, my dp, myself and 3 or 4 other relatives, and we all sat and chatted. if you sit and have an adults only conversation and expect your children to just sit quietly then no they arent going to but my children can and do sit and talk to adults and join in with conversation, be it about the food they are ordering, or even asking relatives what their drive over was like or how their pet dog is, whatever they will sit and chat. unfortunately for me my children are rather talkative, ds4 is sat next to me drawing and chatting away about his picture. i dont think its hard to engage with children and talk to them about stuff that is off interest to everyone, like i said our relatives are keen to hear what the children have been up to and find out about their interests.

I actually gave myself a virtual reward at the restaurant last Wednesday, because they all sat their quietly, and we all enjoyed the experience in our own way. And the waiter seemed to like us as well, giving the children a lollipop each.

But according to some of you, were are the epitome of bad manners.

gosh my grammar has gone.

yes maryz d4 is sat next to me colouring, he is describing what he is drawing (good job i may not have a clue otherwise) he is talking about the colours and being careful putting the lids back on the right pens, he is happily chuntering away with a bit of input from me! if you sit readinga book, you dont talk at the same time, you are generally immersed in it, a meal out is a social even where people talk to each other! that included children imo.

and yes if necessary i would take a young child out for a run around but certainly no wandering around the table and it would be inbetween courses etc.

a child reading a book outloud to an adult i think is different, again its more sociable and my mil particularly would love to hear her grandchildren reading outloud :)

infact when mine are little ie toddler age, we may take a small book, or board book for one of us to read to them if it helps entertain them.

my 7, 9 and 12 yr olds will sit and chat, the 3yr old and 14mth old need some entertainment, be that small toys or colouring stuff.

Yanbu

Was there a chance to discretely pull them aside and remind them of the consequences if they didn't put their faces straight?

ah ok so it was only my 7 year old who was being bad mannered, because she was reading quietly, while I paid attention to the one reading out loud?