To be worried about my daughter ...

[ParanoidAnnie]

DD1 is 7 (class 3). She had a rocky start to school and never really seemed to bond or fit in. She is a lovely child. I know I am biased, but I have heard this from other sources I.e. family/friends. She is kind, considerate and always shows great empathy with others.

She has no friends to call her own. After lots of fighting and falling out at school with some girls who had much stronger personalities than her, she quite naturally took it upon herself to just play with boys as they were no hassle! I commended her for this mature decision.

However now they are getting older, the boys aren't interested and she is becoming increasingly withdrawn. She never gets invited to parties or sleepovers. I do try to play this down a lot. We always do something nice at weekends to compensate.

I have spoken to school in the past when a few girls were being particularly nasty. It was resolved at the time and things seemed to settle down.

She is 8 in a few weeks and has really started to notice how things are. Last night she initiated a conversation about why she wasn't 'popular'. She said she couldn't understand why she didn't have any friends at school. She was asking me what she could do? We've had girls for tea and had parties but she rarely gets invited back. So I've taken my bat and ball home a bit with the rudeness of some the mums.

I have anthr DD who is completely different and the comparison is becoming so obvious to both!

There are other things that have happened at school that I don't want to say for fear of identifying us!

I fear that she is lonely, sad and as they get older she is heading for a rough time. I just don't know what to do to help. I love her do much and just want her to be happy. So am I AIBU to be concerned or should I just leave it and let it sort itself out?

Thanks for reading thus far .....

My 8 year old is struggling in the exact same way, with the other boys being mean to him, him being eager to please even though he has nothing in common with them.

Its very sad, and I don't know the solution, though he has recently joined cubs where there's none of his classmates present and he seems to have bonded with one boy already.

He's become increasinly withdrawn, sometimes overly agressive when picked on (which makes him more of a target) and his school work is beginning to suffer (he's always adored school work).

I'm sorry I don't have any useful advice, but you're not alone.

One thing though, do not accept the approach that focuses solely on your dd finding strategies to cope with bullying, because although that IS important, it seems to me that the bullies are never ever dealt with. We will be pushing further for action to be taken with regards the ringleaders at least, they escape any kind of strategy training of their own and are seemingly being allowed to think their behaviour is fine, its not fine at all. My child cannot hope to succeed in his 'strategies' if he's being bullied and picked on, isolated and upset every day.

YANBU to be concerned and I understand it can be hard to know when to step in. I would urge you not to let it sort itself out, as I took that approach initially and now feel that the behaviours towards my son are becoming habit, and therefore harder to resolve.

I do hope you can help your dd feel better, and that the school help her by focussing on those doing the damage. x

Awwww, that must be really heartbreaking for you :(

I fear that my DS will be the same. He's just so nice and unassuming and inclusive that I worry he will get his heart broken by "stronger personalities" at some point.

I think that what usually happens is that by secondary school, they come into themselves and make friends that they will keep for life. That's where I made my friends. I was quite similar; I had friends in primary school but always felt like I was a square peg being forced into a round hole. They all played fiddles and flutes and I didn't. They all went to Brownies, I didn't. I had to do a lot of pretending to fit in. Then I got into secondary school, found people that I had stuff in common with and bloomed.

It won't always be like this. Your daughter sounds lovely and so do you. She won't become an adult with no friends, although that's no help/reassurance in the here and now. Does she do any out of school activities where she can mix with kids not at her school? Might be worth a thought?

No great words of wisdom but I have a DD who will be 8 soon too. I can understand how you feel. Feel so sorry for your daughter asking you what she should do....I'm sad for her.

By the way, I only realised how bad it was becoming when I visited the class and he showed me their 'goal wall', little post-it notes of weekly goals they wish to achieve.

Most of the children had written "Improve my handwriting" etc., my son's first one read: To control my temper

The second one read: To not be bullied or hurt by x,y, z... it broke my heart, I told him I thought he was very brave to put that on the wall, in public, and applauded him. He told me his teacher had commented that it sounded very agressive!! Well yes, he's ANGRY.

This was last week. I'd have thought I'd have got a curly finger from the teacher as it is cause for concern... none came. I spoke to one of his teachers who is brilliant but not in charge of the goal wall so hadn't seen it and am now waiting for her to discuss the matter with the other teacher and get back to me on Monday.

I have spoken about my concerns to the other teacher and got the 'strategies' schpeil.

Oh no, now I've started to cry with your lovely replies and to know we are not alone. Also with sadness for DD. this is not how I imagined her school life to be.

Funny you should say about the coping with bullies strategy. She sees a lovely lady counsellor once a week on a Thursday. This was recommended by the school. She loves it. The counsellor says she is a lovely child and it was a pleasure to be with her. She does know that is very on the outside of things with friends.

I do keep thinking that as she gets older it may get better. I worry though that she has 4 more years of not fitting in and how that may effect her.

Some children don't suit being children. When they are nice and empathetic and stuff, they tend to suit being adults much more...

My ds struggled at primary, I don't think he understood other kids at all, but now at secondary he has got lots of lovely friends.

For those children, the older they get, the better it gets (like Buppy).

I know it's no help, but maybe a bit of consolation..

Yep, another square peg here. Some of the best people didn't fit in at school!
Talk to the parents of the bullies, as bullying must be dealt with.
I can just feel how worried you must be, and how she feels too, so YANBU at all.

I may come accross as a giant hippy now, but when I was about her age a friend from school took me to Woodcraft Folk, and I loved it, and used to go on camps and made loads of friends.
I think because it is a very right on and inclusive organisation and full of nerdy kids she would be made welcome.

That may not be her thing, but if you could find anything that she might like to do out of school involving other kids, she might make some outside friends and she will gain in confidence.

Oh bless

One thing to consider is some out of school actvities, ie brownies/guides, something where she can make some non school mates

I went through a period like this at school and it really helped to have out of school friends

I also really think assertivness and techniques to deal with bullies helps too

It will get better, as secondary school she will meet new people etc but I get you dont want to wait that long

xxxx

Aldiwhore sounds very familiar. She was in trouble last week for lashing out at one particular girl. Very out of character for her. I think she had had enough. I made her apologise (we have never had the same courtesy). She cried all weekend as she was so worried about being in trouble.

She does out of school activities and seems to enjoy these.

I worry about her constantly. :-(

oh pore pore you

I used to go WEEKS without sleeping with ds. It passes I promise.

Woodcraft folk damn fine idea. And choose her secondary school with care (as I am sure you will). DS is bright and a bit geeky, at the school he is at he is with his own kind. I sleep now (apart from Dd).

good that she does out of school stuff

I get how it twists your heart, but make sure she does not realise you are worried, as will worry her further

Is moving school a no go? assume so

Always avoided talking to parents, wanted school to sort it. Doesn't look like that's happening though so maybe I need to take more decisive action.

Thank you all for your lovely replies.

AIBU to want to get all these 'in' girls and want to bang their heads together?!?!

DD was so upset last night and genuinely questioning what was wrong with her. I just told her nothing, she was beautiful and they were the ones with the problem.

That's what worries me ParanoidAnnie I was a square peg but avoided trouble, or being seen as a trouble maker.

I am worried that he's going to start feeling worthless, he gets bullied, he lashes out, he disappoints us and his teachers.

He hid in the bathroom cupboard yesterday because I'd ticked him off for using my staple gun on the dining room walls... it was no big deal to me really as he has been designing posters, but I simply didn't want him using it... he must have felt he can't do anything right.

I don't wish for him to be consumed by self loathing, but I can't not reprimand him sometimes.

I think I will carry on my current course and see what happens after half term, but I think seeing a counsellor could help him and will persue that idea.

I just feel so bloody helpless!

I still think doing something has to be better than doing nothing. x

The teachers need to work with all of them as a group.

We had all this with dd and her friendship group who kept falling out. The teacher was brill, she instituted hot choc breaks where they all went to her office, had hot choc, and talked things over.

It didn't work...! But they tried.

Girls can be total cowbags.

Aldiwhore - why is your ds being blamed when he is the victim?

Go tot the school and INSIST this is addressed properly. Take someone with you if necessary.

Have strongly considered moving school for a fresh start. DD2 is very settled though and it would be difficult with them both in different schools.

Would rather try and sort problem here. She just really tries hard to please. She isn't shy as such. Very happy to play with anyone.

I have witnessed playtime and it is HEART BREAKING she just runs round like a mad woman with the other girls all standing in little huddles ignoring her. Then other times she just looks so sad :-(

One of the bullies was upset the other day and she even tried to help her! My instinct would have even entirely different.....

We could all benefit from counselling, but I can't help thinking that almost makes the bullying the victims problem.
Why arent the horrible little bullies getting counselling to stop them victimising other children?
There is a particular child in my ds's class who is always mentioned by ds when something goes wrong.
One time this kid split ds's lip, and I mentioned it to the teaching assistant the next day.
She told ds quite crossly that he should have said something at the time, and that there was no point saying anything to the boy who did it because he "wouldn't remember"!
This boy has no special needs that I am aware of, and I so I expect he actually would remember smacking ds in the face.
It felt like ds was basically being blamed, and nothing happened.
I am resolved now that if anything else happens I am going to waylay the other boys mother and tell her.
It won't make me popular, but I don't care.
Bullying makes me so angry.

Aldiwhore, your DS sounds very like DD. Heartbreaking, eh? You should make an appointment with the school. DD counsellor is lovely, she cheers the day she has to see her. They play chess and and draw and stuff. They talk about friendships.. It is helping.

Your poor DD. I feel for both of you.

DD1 was very shy when she started school, and found it hard to make friends. She also experienced some bullying.
Joining some outside hobbies helped her confidence a lot. She made a very nice friend or two through her hobbies, and that helped her further.

In particular I found Speech & Drama and dancing to be good for making friends. Something where they manage to have social interaction and opportunity to do some teamwork with smaller teams.

Also, don't give up on playdates, even if you DD is not being invited back. So long the invited children play nicely with your DD and look like they had fun, continue to invite children over.

Also, playdates with a friend from a hobby are great fun.

Poor you and poor her

Keep inviting the children (boys and girls) she likes and don't worry about return invites - do what makes your dd happy. Lots of out of school activities, brownies, woodland folk etc etc. Anything where there is organised activities and teamwork will help.

Is there an activity she can do at playtime that she likes on her own? Maybe skipping, reading, knitting or something? Just so she is busy and not lonely. The school should be doing more to help IMO with organised lunch time activities she can join in with for example. Are there lunch clubs she can join for netball, recorder club or cooking??

I would seriously consider moving her if she was unhappy. I also totally agree with Hully, I think it was, who said some children just aren't great at being children. I was born old. I have lots of lovely, lovely friends and I'm very very happy now but I was socially an awkward child in many ways. I was lucky I was good at sport so I did a lot of that.

What Hully said about some people not suiting being a child, but making a lovely adult really rings true. Childhood can be savage when you don't 'play the game' with the kids who are less empathetic. I don't know what the answer is for your DD here and now, but I bet she's the kind of person everyone wants to know when they're a bit older. Definitely get her going to places out of schol where she can make friends with a clean slate and they don't know her already.

This may be very naive but is there anyone in her class that she would like to be friends with and whose parents you know well enough to approach, very quietly on the sidelines, to ask for help? If I knew that there was an unhappy child in our class and their mother asked me for my/DD's help in helping her into the fold, as it were, then I'd be more than happy to do my best to help.

Gosh I also really feel for you.

This happened to a few of my friends children when DS was in primary.

Could you not have a chat with her teacher? The school had a strategy in place for this and they sat them next to other nice natured children that were a bit the same and encouraged the friendship both in class and in the playground.

Getting loads of useful advice here, what I can see through the torrent of tears that have opened up with ll the emotion for DD. Thank you all so much. I am going to go back to school with some of the suggestions you have on here.

Good to know we are not alone. I can't stress enough how lovely she is. It baffles the hell out of me why she is outcast so much. She would make a lovely friend and I hate people for not seeing it. I'm sure that as toddlerama says, that as she gets older people will start to realise this.

I think at this age children as so easily led by the 'ringleader' who herself doesn't realise she is doing anything wrong. However, as she has an intense dislike (jealousy??) of DD, she is excluded from everything.

I m considering moving her TBH. I just want her to be happy. Happiness = contentment and should ensure she works harder at school and achieves more.

The other thing about school is that we're lumped in for five years with people that we won't necessarily like or bond with yet it makes us feel so bad when we can't form friendships with them. It's almost tantamount to being expected to become bosom buddies with your work colleagues (you're lucky if it happens!)

Is your DD mature enough to be shown this thread, Paranoid? So that she can see that it isn't just her that has ever felt like this?