To be worried about my daughter ...

[ParanoidAnnie]

DD1 is 7 (class 3). She had a rocky start to school and never really seemed to bond or fit in. She is a lovely child. I know I am biased, but I have heard this from other sources I.e. family/friends. She is kind, considerate and always shows great empathy with others.

She has no friends to call her own. After lots of fighting and falling out at school with some girls who had much stronger personalities than her, she quite naturally took it upon herself to just play with boys as they were no hassle! I commended her for this mature decision.

However now they are getting older, the boys aren't interested and she is becoming increasingly withdrawn. She never gets invited to parties or sleepovers. I do try to play this down a lot. We always do something nice at weekends to compensate.

I have spoken to school in the past when a few girls were being particularly nasty. It was resolved at the time and things seemed to settle down.

She is 8 in a few weeks and has really started to notice how things are. Last night she initiated a conversation about why she wasn't 'popular'. She said she couldn't understand why she didn't have any friends at school. She was asking me what she could do? We've had girls for tea and had parties but she rarely gets invited back. So I've taken my bat and ball home a bit with the rudeness of some the mums.

I have anthr DD who is completely different and the comparison is becoming so obvious to both!

There are other things that have happened at school that I don't want to say for fear of identifying us!

I fear that she is lonely, sad and as they get older she is heading for a rough time. I just don't know what to do to help. I love her do much and just want her to be happy. So am I AIBU to be concerned or should I just leave it and let it sort itself out?

Thanks for reading thus far .....

I would second moving her to a different school to give her a fresh start if that's possible. I was always the same at school, but I made a lot of friends outside of school. Have you thought about something like Forest School Camps? (www.fsc.org.uk/) I had a great time there as a child, and I think your dd is just old enough to go.

DD is very quiet. Crying a lot and attacking DD2 (although that is 'normal' ).

She is saying she is ok, but I think she is burying her feelings. She doesn't like to upset me.

I am speaking to the Head first thing on Monday and will let you all knw how we get on ...

DH thinks moving is a bad idea. He thinks we would be running away and the problem would just go with us. There are also the logistics of 2 children in different schools.

I will also have a look at some of the outside of school activities some of you suggest, seems like a good idea and can't hurt. She loves Brownies, so that is a start.

I'm favouring the moving schools at the moment, but I am very emotional and not thinking straight.

It's only taking the problem with you if you think the problem is your daughters'.
Personally, it sounds like the problem is a too small school, crap parents, and crap teacher/bullying policy.
It's not running away, it's leaving a situation that has become unbearable.

Sorry, I haven't read the entire thread, but I agree with what snowstorm said. If another parent approached me for help with a situation like this, I would be more than happy to facilitate the friendship between their dc and my dd. As a parent, I hate the idea of another DC being lonely and unhappy, but I wouldn't necessarily know that this was the case - I know my dd's close friends, but tend to assume that the other girls play with other people.

I went through a short period of being very lonely at secondary school. It was awful, but it didn't last.

Northern is right...the problem is not your DDs by the sound of it...she makes an effort. They have gotten into a habit of excluding her for whatever reason...because she doesnt fit in with their rules probably.

In a new/better school she would be helped to make friends...she has no "label" in the other kids eyes either...she's just the new girl who is as good as any of them.

Move her!
You dh has never been a girl, and has no idea how horrible little girls can be. You need to agree a time limit, and I would seriously consider moving both dds. Dd2 might be fine, but I am sure she will be fine in a bigger school too. She might moan but she will adapt well.

It is true that DCs often take the problem with them, but as far as I can see your DD doesn't have a problem to move. She has a very small friendship pool that didn't work to start with so she did the sensible thing-ignored them and made friends with the boys- but they have moved on leaving her high and dry.The girls have managed without her and have a pattern of excluding her and she doesn't want to be be friends anyway.
If you see the Head I would have thought it was to get DD included with the girls-if she doesn't like them-it seems difficult to imagine what they Head could do.
I would have thought it better to move and have a fresh start with a new, larger, friendship base.

Deliberate exclusion is bullying! and the school have a responsibility to deal with it. On Monday ask for the school's bullying policy, and to see the log they should have kept of anything your DD has told them.
Also going back to the "they won't remember it, it was yesterday", perhaps ask the teacher why they are bothering to teach if they think the children can't remember anything from the day before, at 7 my memory wasn't that bad, and if had been I think I would have been taken to see a doctor.

She doesn't want to play with them again. She doesn't go near them. It's me as her mother that thinks that this unhealthy.

This is the sticking point.You can go in asking to see bullying problems but if she doesn't like them and want to play with them I can't see how it helps. A fresh start with DCs she actually likes seems to be a better option-unless she really likes them and is just saying it.

There is one ringleader who seems to instigate everything, with another very mean one, with her own issues.

A common problem in small schools, you get a 'queen bee' which is all very well if you get a nice one, but someone who likes the power generally uses it badly. They don't get away with it in bigger schools, those that want to ignore her can find plenty of other options.

sorry -should have read bullying policies

Oooh I remember the Queen Bee at my primary School. She was blonde, delicate, pretty, girly-in fact everything that I wasn't. The other girls flocked around her and she really played them off against each other.

Apparently, soon after high school she got really, massively fat. It was very sad.

"DH thinks moving is a bad idea. He thinks we would be running away and the problem would just go with us."

Sometimes there is no shame in running away from a problem if it saves your mental and emotional sanity.

That is the only thing I love about facebook, seeing how the class bullies and bitches turned out.

i am a teacher and a parent of year 3 daughter, who is a very kind, old fashioned little girl, who doesn't fit in with the more streetwise contingent in her class. she has friends, but has experienced some unkindness recently, which breaks my heart. if your dd were at her school, she would love her and show her a rare thing- empathy.

i am going to say it like i see it, and say it straight.

despite all your dd's lovely qualities, she has no kindred spirits at her school. once a class gets used to ignoring and marginalising a child, you will never fundamentally change that attitude towards them. you might get a good teacher who does a bit of PSHE and pricks the children's consciences for a while... they may feel short term empathy and try to include her for a while. but in my exp, things soon return to how they are.

i dont agree that exclusion is always bullying. sometimes a child can almost be invisible to their class mates. your dd deserves to be SEEN and appreciated.

yes, problems do often follow children around, but clearly your dd is able to demonstrate the necessary qualities for making friends in other situations, so a fresh start would almost certainly help.

i wish you all the very best x

It's just the most horrible feeling isn't it OP :(

When my dd was going through this (her worst time of it, that is, she has never 'fit in' the teacher was proactive and instigated a programme called 'circle of friends' which was designed to get the class talking and having empathy for those on the edge. DD was later assessed as dyspraxic with particular social difficulties but that programme helped her a lot. I think it is done in quite a few authorities? - However, it may be again that that is seen as concentrating on the bullied not the bullies. It is hard to find a solution.

I could have written your post though for both of my dc, DS is 8 and going through similar at the moment. He said yesterday 'no one likes me at school mummy. What's wrong with me?' He is a bright, happy and funny little chap, but doesn't like football, and that seems to be the main problem.

Hully I like the sound of your MN school. Can we enrol?

Sending much sympathy OP. It's just awful and so heartbreaking to see your much loved dc go through this. And yes you do feel like knocking the bullies' heads together

Everyone, it is the most awful feeling. Been pondering all day on what is best for DD. still no decisions. Just an aching heart for how things are.

It feels, somehow, that we as a family aren't worthy to be included in their group. Of course, I know this is utter nonsense, but it's how it feels.

Noonar, your words ring very true and you managed to put into words what I felt, better than I could. We have addressed this in the past and it is all ok for a while, then it goes back to 'normal' in a matter of days.

DD on the plus side is having a day of minor indulgence - she was even allowed ice cream at the cinema at 10 am this morning!

Madhairday, how is your DD now. So to hear it happens to others xx

Hi op, your thread has made me feel so emotional as its really struck a cord with me.

I was bullied badly at primary by boys and girls. I'd make friends and then the bullies would bully my friends into not being friends with me. This went on for years. The school did sod all and my mum was totally ineffectual and used to say 'well, I can't make people be friends with you'. I did brownies, swimming etc out of school but those kids who would be friends with me there, wouldn't at school so they wouldn't get bullied.

It stopped when we moved and I went to a new school. Just stopped. I didn't have to change, I didn't have to be nicer or kinder or better or more normal or better at sports or less clever because the problem wasn't me it was the circumstances I was in.

I wouldn't wait til secondary for it to stop for your dd and I wouldn't care if it is a logistical nightmare. I would move heaven and earth if my child found themselves in the situation I was in at primary. As a child I coped but as an adult I could weep for that little girl who couldn't understand why no one liked her. It has also made me an awful people pleaser as an adult as well and I'm always waiting for people to not like me and assume no one really wants to be my friend.

There's only one life and why stick out shit situations to prove you can 'stand up' to bullies. Fuck em. Your dd's happiness is more important. Best wishes :)

"It feels, somehow, that we as a family aren't worthy to be included in their group."

They're a group of cows, so I'd take it as a compliment that they don't deem you or your DD "good enough" to fit into their nasty little clique.

I hope you and DH and DD of course get a hold of all this as a family...it's rubbish that the school have not helped. I think you need to look for a new one.

ParanoidAnnie- I feel so so sad reading about your dd. I have been talking about it with my dds, and my 8yo dd says your dd should come to her school, and she would love to be friends with her! There is nothing nothing your dd is doing wrong. She sounds far far more balanced than the mean girls, who sound too old for their years. I'm sure that your dd will find herself happy in years to come, but that doesn't help you now

You sound like a lovely caring mum, and I hope things work out for your dd. So sad that this happens to so many children. I'm lucky in that my dd2 has another friend who is also "left out" so I've told her to ignore her so-called "best friend" and play with this other (nicer) girl instead. It doesn't seem to be upsetting dd2 too much, but I am keeping a watchful eye, as she can be deep. Dd1 also keeps an eye out too, which helps!

I really feel for you. My DD went through something similar at about the same age and it was particularly hard when she used to notice and comment that no one liked her! I think she might have just been a little immature in some ways and the other kids were picking on this - much as she was a lovely girl, just she never quite fitted in. Then she just grew up started to change, no moving schools, the kids who'd ignored her just started to play with her. And she now has a few friends and gets invited to things. She's by no means in the popular gang but she's fine. It was around 9/10 things started to improve. I really hope the same happens with your little girl.

There was also a book I read about teaching your child friendship skills. (wish I could remember the name.) It' was very subtle about ways to encourage your chikd to send the right signals to other children. I think sometimes my DD was just saying the wrong things, or trying too hard. I guess making friends is something you can learn little skills in. She also used to take toys/books to school to have something to play with at break. The other kids would sometimes want to borrow her Diablo and that helped!

Hope it all work's out for her, and you.

Hi Annie, we went through much the same with dd1 so can understand what you are going through.

We had a nightmare with the school constantly failing to address any of the problems and at the end of the summer term I decided enough was enough and moved her but left dd2 at the school as she was really happy there.

She was at the end of year 5 and although her marks have slipped shes much happier. After 4 weeks she came home waving the first party invite she'd had in 4 years - which made me feel guilty as hell for not doing it sooner. I wish I had. Its not running away but giving her a fresh start and a chance to enjoy being at school. We had a small clique of girls making her life hell, sadly the same lot also are brownies so she now goes to cubs as well. Its more her style!

Logistically its a right faff, we both work ft and often have to be at two places at once but after seeing the difference in dd1 I haven't any regrets. The stress on all of us has reduced and I don't feel like crap when I drop her off anymore. Hope this helps.

Message from DD

Hi. I'm 12 now but when I was that age I had the same problem so I thought I'd try to help. I have found that it's usually caused because the child is more mature, clever, or has special interests that set them apart (mine is egyptology). It made me feel very sad and worthless after a while and what made matters worse was the feeling that everyone either didn't like me or that noone understood me. I felt very lonely for a while but I soon found that it was just because I am naturally solitary and there's nothing wrong with that although some teachers can behave badly if a child is naturally solitary. What you need to do is just tell her that you love her and that you will always support her. You might already tell her this but it does a world of good and another thing is to constantly reassure her that it is not her fault and that she is probably just slightly different in a good way. Never let her feel that it is her fault or that she has done something wrong because this does not help in any way. I hope this helps and that you and your daughter find peace.

Jux, what a lovely mature 12 year old daughter you have. Thank her from the bottom of my heart for her lovely message. I feel so strong moving forward listening to all your words of comfort.

To Jux DD ...

DD is quite naturally solitary like you - she will spend hours in her room, writing little stories, drawing cartoon strips and of course reading and watching TV. I leave her most times as I know it makes her happy! Sometimes we miss her though so will make her come downstairs and spend time with us .

It sounds like you have a lovely family to take care of you and make you feel loved. I will keep telling DD that we all love her and I know that she will start to feel much better soon. Thank you xxx