To be worried about my daughter ...

[ParanoidAnnie]

DD1 is 7 (class 3). She had a rocky start to school and never really seemed to bond or fit in. She is a lovely child. I know I am biased, but I have heard this from other sources I.e. family/friends. She is kind, considerate and always shows great empathy with others.

She has no friends to call her own. After lots of fighting and falling out at school with some girls who had much stronger personalities than her, she quite naturally took it upon herself to just play with boys as they were no hassle! I commended her for this mature decision.

However now they are getting older, the boys aren't interested and she is becoming increasingly withdrawn. She never gets invited to parties or sleepovers. I do try to play this down a lot. We always do something nice at weekends to compensate.

I have spoken to school in the past when a few girls were being particularly nasty. It was resolved at the time and things seemed to settle down.

She is 8 in a few weeks and has really started to notice how things are. Last night she initiated a conversation about why she wasn't 'popular'. She said she couldn't understand why she didn't have any friends at school. She was asking me what she could do? We've had girls for tea and had parties but she rarely gets invited back. So I've taken my bat and ball home a bit with the rudeness of some the mums.

I have anthr DD who is completely different and the comparison is becoming so obvious to both!

There are other things that have happened at school that I don't want to say for fear of identifying us!

I fear that she is lonely, sad and as they get older she is heading for a rough time. I just don't know what to do to help. I love her do much and just want her to be happy. So am I AIBU to be concerned or should I just leave it and let it sort itself out?

Thanks for reading thus far .....

snowstorm thanks for this. I am friendly with some of the mums, I have withdrawn myself slightly from them due to DD's unhappiness. I know this isn't the right thing to do. I am quite friendly and smiley, but inwardly shy, but aware that it can come across as being brash.

I will give it a thought.

Move her. It might be the best thing.
And then write a letter to the parents of every child who has bullied her telling them exactly why you have moved your daughter.

"I can't stress enough how lovely she is. It baffles the hell out of me why she is outcast so much. She would make a lovely friend and I hate people for not seeing it."

'Tis often the way, my lovely. No idea why but it seems so true that the sensitive souls get trampled on along the way. :(

The good news is, that actually more of us are like your DD, than like the 'orrible bitchy kids, so there is comfort in that.
We are legion!(And often a bit hidden at school)

I agree with NorthernLurker. Also, try and look at the bigger picture: your dd has the tools to be a very happy adult. Sadly, so much can't be said for the cowbag girls whose parents are failing spectacularly in their duties if they can't even get their child to apologise for their wrongdoings.

Was also like this at school. I can remember being followed into the toilet by the 'ringleader' several times, and she would just go on and on about who'd been to whose house and who wore nicer clothes than me, etc, etc.

There were 2 other girls who were kept on the edge of the group, and gradually we gravitated towards each other, and sort of looked after each other. Are there any girls you can see are a little more on the outside? Could you invite them for playdates?

I think that a discussion with school is important here also. At DCs school there are 'playtime buddies', so if any child has no one to play with they go to 'The Friendship Stop' and one of the buddies will come and play with them. This was introduced last year, and seems to stop the arguments escalating. Maybe a little tricky for older children but perhaps something along these lines could be introduced. Also, school need to be rewarding children who are kind to everybody, with house points, certificates, whatever the school system is.

You sound like a lovely Mum, and it must be a relief for DD that she has such great support at home.

ParanoidAnnie- your post made me cry a little . I really do think a lot of it is down to luck- good or bad. My dd is also just 8, and has a lovely wee group of friends, who all seem to be happy straightforward wee girls (apart from one!) whereas dd2 is 6 and at the same school, and the girls in her class seem to be starting with the bitchiness and "leaving out" already . Funnily enough, the ones who do this are the ones whose mums back-bite each other in the school playground, so it isn't exactly a huge surprise. dd1 just seems to have nicer girls in her class- no idea why. Luckily for dd2, there are other girls in her class who are nice, although they sometimes seem to come under the influence of the ringleaders- the ringleaders tell everyone a "secret" that dd2 is not to be told, and they have "secret talks" that exclude her . Happily dd2 is a lot less sensitive than dd1, and it doesn't seem to bother her. Ironically the main culprit is dd2's supposed "best friend"

I think others may be right when they say that trying to have one-on-one plpaydates with some of the other girls might help. There are bound to be some who just follow the leader because they are scared to be singled out, and would maybe play happily with your dd outwith the "circle". I wouldn't take it too personally about not being asked back. I am guilty of not really doing playdates, although the girls do get invited, just because I work full time, and I have 3 dc of similar age who play together, so I don't feel the need to have other children over (although obviously I do sometimes!) Also whenever one of them has a friend over the other two start playing up and it ends in squabbling/ "he's annoying us!"/ "she won't go away" type hassle!

Also second the idea of out-of-school activities and trying to invite friends from those over. Might give your dd a confidence boost and make her feel less needing to please the girls at school, which ironically will probably also make her more "popular"- seems to be the way it works.

Your dd sounds lovely, and you sound like a lovely mum. I'm sure it will work out.

Wow, my mum could've written that post 12 years ago. I was just like that, could never understand why nobody ever wanted to be my friend. Unfortunately for me this carried on through secondary school and then college, I had a few "mates" but no proper friends. I'm 20 now and still don't have any proper friends. There is a group of young mums all around my age at my breastfeeding group and they all meet up fairly often for drinks in town, coffees and have baby parties at each others houses and I never get invited. It makes me sad sometimes but I'm happy enough mostly, I have a wonderful DP, a gorgeous 7.5mo DD, and my lovely new retired greyhound.

I hope your DD makes some friends soon, she sounds like a lovely little girl :)

I was miserable at primary school. I didn't have any friends at all and I still to this day don't know why. I wasn't bullied or anything but I didn't seem to bond with anyone. I was also quite shy so it wasn't in my nature to join in with a group of children unless asked and they didn't. i spent a lot of time sat on my own at play time. If you asked my Mum she will tell you that my friend was a particular girl 'X'. But she wasn't. We used to walk into school together and got on fine but when we arrived at school she'd go off to her friends and I'd be left on my own. She wasn't horrible to me or anything she just obviously preferred the company of other people to me.

However that completely changed at secondary school. I made several really close friends and have never had a problem making friends since. I still don't really know what the problem with primary school was just possibly that I didn't 'click' with anyone and was a bit too shy. Looking back I'm sure if I'd made more of an effort to join in with the groups at primary things may have been better but it just wasn't my nature.

Allow her to do clubs, and encourage an interest or five. Invite girls home individually. Your dd won't be the only one in the class not in with the in crowd.

NorthernWreck- We don't have children at the same school do we? Only I had the same line about 'Why didn't they say something yesterday, they won't remember now?' Are all school staff given a script or something? In our case my DD was then blamed for getting hurt by the other girl becasue she is 'bossy and a bit shouty' Oh well thats alright then. Thoroughly deserved to be slapped about by another child who obvoiusly wasn't bossy & shouty (but viscious) Bullying makes me angry too.

I teach children this age and older. There is often one child who has no friends to speak of, and they are usually lovely, kind, bright children.
Hang on in there; in my experience things do improve with time (I'm not talking about bullying). Children's friendships can be quite fluid and, as the other girls mature, they may well start to appreciate your daughter.
Jealousy can be a factor, especially with girls even at 7. Is there something that the other girls may envy about your daughter?

..I also was terribly lonely and isolated in years 5 and 6, and went to be happy at secondary school.

Jooly, sounds the same here. DD2 just plays, no hassle, no fighting , just playing, fun and lots of it!! Have you spoken to school to sort out for your DD2?

She told me yesterday that DD1 was lying on all the coats in the yard (???) and the boys were throwing things on top to try and cover her up??? The small group of girls were taunting and stuff. I was soo upset. She thought she was playing a game and desperately trying to fit in and play. It doesn't sound like that to me.

I think it's just the luck of the draw, what type of children end up in the class. Main ring leader is from a nice family, but she is so 'grown up' for her age and desperately tries to be the centre of attention all the time. Always watching to see who is watching.

Part of conversation with DD1 last night she told me that this girl was on a bench with all girls around her listening to her stories. She wanted to know why that was? Why when she said something no one was bothered. I just couldn't answer it.

My DD is in year three too op and she's begun at a new school this year to boot. I can gather that it's a bit of a funny age...with some kids becoming cocksure and others growing more insecure.

My DD seems to have some friends but not many...and she sometimes chooses to play alone as the other DC seem to annoy her..that's what she says anyway. I have decided to put her into Stagecoach...as a confidence builder...get her out of her comfort zone a lttle.

Your DD sounds bright...she is questioning social norms and interaction when she wonders what it is that makes people flock around some and not others....brightness of this type can make those loud overbearing types nervous.....and I bet that is EXCACTLY why your poor DD has been ousted.

Have you thought about drama classes for her?

ParanoidAnnie i could have written your post..

My dd is 8 in year 4.

In year 2 after two years of happy times at school things took a turn for the worse. I really don't know why dd is lovely, caring, kind and funny but the girls in the class didn't like her. None of them would play with her, she never got invited to parties or playdates. She was totally on her own without a single friend. She was in such a bad way she was pulling out her eyelashes and pulled out half of an eyebrow - it was truly awful. The school were great but although they can stop people being horrid they can't make people play together and she was left out for the whole year.

She was forever asking me why no one liked her, why she doesn't have a best friend and why no one ever comes to our house...despite me trying to engage several parents to try and make the situation better.

She hated school, would cry every day and trying to get her to go back after a half term was almost impossible.

Year 3 was a bit better, i think as the classes were mxed up and she had resigned herself to the fact that school was awful. I think she spent nearly every single lunchtime on her own sitting on a bench reading. When she lined up in the morning although the other girls were not mean to her they were not happy to see her like they were their other friends and they turnt their backs and stood in a group all talking togther.

It would break my heart and i would get home and cry, every day i would dread picking her up in case she had a particularly awful day.

We tried to help her make friends other ways, Brownies which has been a resounding sucess and she loves it, and swimming club both of which have allowed her to make friends outside of her school - maybe give a club a go if you can.

I even seriously considered home schooling her.

She is now in year 4 and things started badly, she would never go out at break but stay in the class room to tidy up - that way "i don't have any problems mummy and it doesn't matter i am on my own"

But all of a sudden and i have no idea why the last two weeks things have changed - she said people want to play with her and she likes school, she actually said that for the first time in two years and i cried!!

She is still sensitive and anxious which i think may last a while but things are better.

So although no great advice to offer (apart from making home and weekends as fun as possible and telling your dd how wonderful she is a million times a day), i can offer some hope that things may well improve when you least expect it.....finges crossed for your dd and you, i know how heart breaking it is for you as a mum.

earthpixie. I know I'm biased, but she is quite pretty. We have been stopped by strangers :-) so i know its not just me! We are a loving family. I bring her to school every day and pick her up. I make sure we go to most plays/assemblies etc. my children are my world and whilst my and DH have lots of time to ourselves, we always put our children's needs first. We spend most weekends doing things as a family. We go on holiday once a year which we save hard for and make sacrifices for all year. We are not flash at all.

Most of the children in the school are the same though so I can't see anything we do differently that would make thm jealous.

Except of course her beauty, which she obviously gets from her Mum.

Dexter we have one 'friend' like that. DD1 says she is only nice when we are talking to her Mum, then ignores her and tells her to go away as soon as they get in school.

Pleased to here things may get better. She certainly has the makings of a well balanced adult.

I would approach the school explain what is happening and how your daughter is feeling. We had this problem at my DS primary school so they implemented bus stops in the playground for children who were feeling sad or had no one to play with. They also used teaching time to try and teach the chlidren about empathy and kindness. My sons class were regarded by all the teachers as being exceptionally unkind. Having lived through this with a ds who left school with no confidence it breaks my heart that it is still happening. No child should be made to feel like this and the school really should be helping you.
See if they have a policy on inclusion . Phone childline or kidsnet and see if they have any advice you can offer the school to help them sort this out. My ds ended up going out of lessons for small amounts of time with other children ,with a speech and language therapist , who would talk through things that had happened. They would be asked to imagine how certain things would feel and how they would help someone if they were in that position.

It did help and I think helped the other children as well

I moved my eldest for similar reasons, she'll never be Miss Popular, just Miss allowed to join in would have been fine but that was too much to ask of her old school.
I have to say having now started senior school my DD has really blossomed and found people on her wave length, she is settled and happy for now, thank goodness.

If she is pretty as well as bright...there you have it. Again I suggest Stagecoach or another drama club where they are very friendly and will help DD to make other friends.

What helped my DD at playtimes seems to be skipping! It's active and they all do it atm

That's great Heswall and I have seen that happen with a friends DD too....she was/is quite mature and the other little girls rejected her but at High School she went in a class with a lot of kids who were new to eacch other and they all got a fresh start...result is that they all seem to have made a strong group together...she now has sleepovers and lots of invitations whereas her last year at Primary was marred by the mea little things she was with then.

She loves school now.

Heswall EXACTLY!! I wouldn't like her to be the popular one, just being allowed to play would be a start. We can't all be in charge. Happy to accept that.

The thing is - her social skills have gone to pot, she doesn't know how to interact and can come across a bit gauch if you know what I mean ...

Imoanruby, sad to hear your experience, glad things got better for your DD. I only hope things get better for DD 1.

Am defo going to spk to school.

minsmum, sounds like a great idea. Thing is, it's a lovely school. The class is well known for 'having strong characters'. I've had enough of it now and listening to all your experiences, advice I am empowered to sort it out.

My DD is my priority.

This is really sad. I was in this kind of situation til was around 12 and have a big fear that the same could happen to one of my DCs.

Lots of good suggestions here. Agree that homing in on a nice-seeming parent / girl and having a chat, maybe after a couple of play-dates at yours to see if the girls get on, could help: my Mum did this and I made one friend, which was enough to get me through for a while.

Outside school activities/hobbies, whether group-type things like woodcraft folk or music or art, reading. Anything that is absorbing (takes mind off things and fills time).

Let her know that she WILL find friends sometime, that she's a good person etc. and it won't be forever. That it's not her fault!

It's good that she feels able to talk about things with you. Having a loving home environment and spending time with family (cousins etc) was what got me through (I didn't talk much about the problems at school).

I would perhaps give the school more hassle. They should be (a) dealing with bullies and (b) actively trying to help children who're finding it difficult, e.g. "buddy" or "friendship bench" type of things, suggesting potential friends. Is the teacher nice to your DD? (Part of my problem was that a couple of teachers made it obvious that they didn't like me, and would do things that were unhelpful in making friends, e.g. make negative comments about me in front of the class: in primary you're pretty much stuck for a whole year)

aldi, it's a disgrace that what your DS (bravely) wrote on the wall was ignored!

To be honest, I would also consider moving schools for a fresh start, if DD is amenable and there are other options locally.

Could you approach some of the nicer mums and instigate a couple of sleepovers? Maybe just a one on one with one of the nicer girls?

Girls seem to be nastier in general and so much emphasis now seems to be on being 'popular' and 'pretty' than ever before - and with that comes jealousy.

Is she in Brownies or doing any thing like that because that will broaden her friendships?