To be worried about my daughter ...

[ParanoidAnnie]

DD1 is 7 (class 3). She had a rocky start to school and never really seemed to bond or fit in. She is a lovely child. I know I am biased, but I have heard this from other sources I.e. family/friends. She is kind, considerate and always shows great empathy with others.

She has no friends to call her own. After lots of fighting and falling out at school with some girls who had much stronger personalities than her, she quite naturally took it upon herself to just play with boys as they were no hassle! I commended her for this mature decision.

However now they are getting older, the boys aren't interested and she is becoming increasingly withdrawn. She never gets invited to parties or sleepovers. I do try to play this down a lot. We always do something nice at weekends to compensate.

I have spoken to school in the past when a few girls were being particularly nasty. It was resolved at the time and things seemed to settle down.

She is 8 in a few weeks and has really started to notice how things are. Last night she initiated a conversation about why she wasn't 'popular'. She said she couldn't understand why she didn't have any friends at school. She was asking me what she could do? We've had girls for tea and had parties but she rarely gets invited back. So I've taken my bat and ball home a bit with the rudeness of some the mums.

I have anthr DD who is completely different and the comparison is becoming so obvious to both!

There are other things that have happened at school that I don't want to say for fear of identifying us!

I fear that she is lonely, sad and as they get older she is heading for a rough time. I just don't know what to do to help. I love her do much and just want her to be happy. So am I AIBU to be concerned or should I just leave it and let it sort itself out?

Thanks for reading thus far .....

ParanoidAnnie - How is your dd outside school? Does she find it easy to make and keep friends? The reason I am asking is that sometimes children are so different at home compared to school.
One friend of my dd is the sweetest, most lovely girl when adults are around. However, it is a very different story in the playground where she can be bossy and can display bully-like tendencies and as a result she is not very well liked. I'm not saying your dd is that way, but I think many parents don't take this into consideration as children interact with their peers very differently when adults are not around.
If this is not the case, then unfortunately there probably just isn't any girl in your dd's class that she bonds with. Can she move class? If not I would consider moving schools. In the meantime, invite one or two girls your dd really likes to your house, I don't know if you have tried this already?

oh OP i really feel for your poor little DD

girls can be so awful. i never fitted in at primary school and it only got worse at secondary school. i never told my parents or teachers, i was too ashamed, i thought it was because there was something wrong with me. i know now it was the bullies that had something wrong with them. i wish to this day i had told someone.

i changed school for "A" levels and everything changed, i suddenly became popular for some reason which continued in to my 20's, but despite this i spent most of my 20's pretty insecure and struggling to make female friends and ended up being quite a bitchy and spiteful person myself, and i am sure it was because of the bullying.

now i am in my 30's i am a whole lot more confident and finally, thank god, have a lovely group of female friends who i love and who love me back.

i worry about my dc being bullied or unpopular because i know how much it ruined my early years and affected my adult life.

anyway i have rambled on but i think its a disgrace that schools dont do more to prevent the bullying itself rather than offering "strategies" for the victims to help themselves ffs.

but please OP get down the school and tell them whats what. get this nipped in the bud NOW. x

I know it always get brought up, but having been an unhappy at school child myself... is HE possible? Just to get her confidence up?

Can't we just start a lovely MN school for all the lovely dc who aren't happy where they are..?

But the schools sound SHIT, it makes me so angry. They should be having:

1. Circle time where friendship and empathy are discussed and there are roleplays about bullying etc.

1. A "bus stop" for children with no one to play with where designated kids (in special vest things) go and get them and play games.

1. Proper buddy schemes where the missed-out ones are paired up with one or two relaiable and kind children.

They need to work at this stuff. So much more important than literacy and numeracy.

Hi

What a sad story. But lots of positives, she is a lovely girl and it appears, most importantly that she can talk to you and express herself. She likes the counsellor (fab, this is great to have a positive neutral role model) she playes chess!! If any of my SC announced they played chess I would do a cartwheel as I am always trying to encourage that they have some more intellectual interests than Xbox and BB.

It is clear that she appears to get on with the counsellor, so maybe she is better with adult company? This might iron itself out once the girls have all caught up. She is 8, and on the cusp of so much. She might end up being the star of the netball team or have a lovely singing voice (look what happened to Susan Boyle- tormented by bullies) be great at drama which will bring others into her world.

My middle DSD has had these problems, she found it easier to talk to me and her dad rather than her mum. Mum wanted her to move class and come down on the school like a tonne of bricks. It was hard to know what to do as (probably like you) some of the behaviour towards her was very subtle but very hurtful and would be hard to express to the school without "evidence". We counselled against it as my DSD did not want to move and just wanted some TLC and reassurance much like you are giving (she was a very immature 10/11 at the time).

My DSD broke through her difficulties and joined one of those drama groups outside school and is now appearing in shows and possibly going to NY to sing-it is the mean girls who are sitting in the audience in wonde.. like total numpties going nowhere.

I think that some of the advice is spot on in that I would continue as normal, reinforcing positive messages and I cannot stress how important it is that your DD is talking to you!

I believe that good WILL out and she will survive and be all the more stronger for it.

I am worried about a similar problem developing with dd2, who loves running around with the boys, but is a bit excluded from the gaggle of girls. She's 6 and I'm thinking that as the boys get a bit more exclusive themselves (and don't want to play with girls so much), she will be left behind.

So, when a new girl joined the class, and seemed a nice bright girl, I practically threw myself at the mum and introduced myself and invited them to tea. She was delighted herself, as she was worried her daughter would have no friends, the teacher also sat them together a bit and now they love playing together.

You have had some great suggestions, picking up one or two of the nice children who are perhaps a little side-lined themselves, doing other activities to boost confidence. I was also not a very childish child and had no real friends at junior school (although I was tolerated, I just didn't have a close friend), I am now extremely sociable and have been my whole adult life. It's not a destiny thing.

Also, do as Hully says and have a word with the school. Ours has a buddy system to integrate children who are a bit left out and they also give the option of 'indoor play' for those who find it all a bit much (and perhaps are easily bullied). I would say our school is excellent for this type of pastoral care, so don't be afraid to demand the same.

Everything Hully just said. It makes me so ragey.

As a teacher, how can you think that you are doing your job properly when one of your numbers dread going into school every day? Fuck's sake, if I were a headteacher, I'd come down like a ton of bricks on these little rotters making life miserable for nice children.

Honestly, I have a feeling I will be writing posts like this in a couple of years and it makes me feel simultaneously stabby, sad and very protective.

Hully I must admit I was very when I saw the post-it and no one had mentioned it. I'm getting angrier and angrier. I've noticed a decline in my eldests self-worth for a while, but got nothing out of him and the parents evening was full of praise... its snowballing now, and I'm not going to rest up until I'm satisfied that everything's being done that can be done.

I am not going to let my boy take the blame, it just all feels like its happening so fast now all these details are cropping up. I do think he could do with some coping strategies, but he shouldn't be subjected to that shit in the first place, and should at least feel that when he's put up such a public cry for help he won't be ignored.

Honestly, I have a feeling I will be writing posts like this in a couple of years and it makes me feel simultaneously stabby, sad and very protective.

bups i feel like this about DS (he is 5) i am already seeing little things happen that make me suspect he will be a target for bullies :(

he is such a kind, sweet little boy, and he likes to please others, possibly TOO much, and sadly i have seen from my own experience this is the kind of child that gets targeted

sense what is HE?

taxi not sure how much of the chess she gets, but she seems to like it! She wants to do every after school activity going and I mostly encourage it. She does football, choir, baseball to name a few. She just does them all on her own :-( . She tries her best, but isn't excelling at anything, so I think this adds to her frustration. Glad things worked for your DSD.

I know there is a party tomorrow she hasn't been invited to. I don't think she is aware. I won't say anything. We will just do something nice instead.

The buddy system sounds great. I'm definitely going to run with that suggestion.

hardgoing I'm going to make sure it's not in her destiny. She's a lovely child and I won't have anyone make her think any different!

Oldisgold. I did think that at the beginning. She is much taller and sturdier than most of the children and I wondered if she was maybe a bit intimidating. I have checked with the school though and they assure me that apart from one incident where she lashed out she is quite considerate of her peers. She is always getting good manners awards and the Head referred to her as a ray of sunshine in the school on her recent report. I've never had a bad report and she is rarely involved in any of the fights.

She just doesn't fit in for god knows what reason. Hard to reconcile why your face doesn't fit when you are 7 :-(

HE = Home Education. Here is the mumsnet section for it

Bupcakes, I am NorthernWreck, Not Lurker. I am not sure NL would want to be associated with my ramblings!
Must namechange-too many Northerns!

As you were.

Paranoid, I think you have probably hit the nail on the head..

"Hard to reconcile why your face doesn't fit when you are 7 :-(" . I think sometimes there is no really clear answer to things. Discuss this with the school, see if they have noticed anything, try and take steps to meet other "nice mums" and open up a discussion over a glass of wine, whatever.

It is really hard to work this out and I do hope it will pass. Your last post said that she WANTS to do all the after school activities and she really tries hard. She is a ray of sunshine, says the head!!

This is so positive and does not, in my experience sum up a girl who is unlikely to succeed on her own path, in her own way, in time. You say that "I fear"..and that your DD has realy only just opened up the convo with you about it. It might just resolve itself. I would wait and see - give it til half term?

PS I was also a very tall and well built child and covered my shyness with bravado. The shame of having to wear "pork pie" police women's shoes and when I was a bridesmaid not having the silver sandals the others had but a pair of Clarke's old lady flat sandals to fit my size 8.5 feet will live with me forever!! I understand things are much better now!!

I would investigate other schools. As a supply teacher I went into many and the best have buddy schemes and playground friends and they just wouldn't let her be friendless in the playground.
A big school is often better, small schools work well if they have a family feel, but often they let DCs be 'big fish in a small pond' and certain DCs dominate. A bigger school has a bigger base for potential friends. Doing something outside school that really interests her is a good way to make friends. I know a boy who suffered because he wasn't into football. He took up kayaking and not only did he make friends but he took it to a higher level and impressed the footballers. A good teacher can help enormously, his yr 6 teacher smoothed his path no end. He is now getting on much better in a large comprehensive-there are more like minded DSs.
Therefore I would
Look into other schools-making sure that you enquire about pastoral care and what they actually do as opposed to what they say they do.
Speak to the teacher.
Think about outside activities.

Yanbu but I think you're doing everything you can but the school isn't :(

My ds started school being 'best friends' with a wee boy from down the road, this wee boy spent most of his time saying he wouldn't be friends with ds if he didn't do x/y/z and ds wouldn't do it :) (was often kick so and so) but also got upset. I've since socialised less with this wee boys family and ds has moved towards other wee boys who are so much, well I hate to say it, but, nicer. What I'm trying to say is it really is luck of the draw, we were lucky that ds and this wee boy were in different classes - the wee boy rules the roost in the other class and I think had ds been in the same class he'd be very very lonely by now.

I'm sorry if I'm rambling. I just mean that ds was lucky, your dd perhaps wasn't but I don't think its anything particularly inherent in her iyswim. I definitely agree that kind, quiet, empathetic kids get left out a bit, ds is a bit too sensitive really, he's a worrier and I know he felt upset at times. It does work out well in other ways though. His 'friend' told him and another boy to push a girl over. - the other boy did it but ds said no cos 'its not nice'. Now, he despises girls hmm apparently so I was proud :)

Just back from a school event, in absolute floods of tears. DH can't console me. The problem in my eyes at the moment is huge and I just can't see a solution. Not one, and I swear not one girl from DDs class acknowledged her existence. They all grouped together, danced, behaved like grown ups comparing outfits etc etc., she ran around, hit a couple of boys with balloons. I wanted to stay to observe, but it was the most heartbreaking thing I have ever had to endure. Am heartbroken. DH adamant that school should sort it but I want her out.

I was going to send DH but I sort of wanted to go so I could see what was happening even though it has left me like a wreck.

So so so sad for DD. Can't think straight.

Did your DD see you so sad? How did she feel about it all? It DOES sound like deliberate exclusion. How many girls in the class? Did they ALL play together except DD?

I don't think so. I tried really hard. I didn't cry until she had gone to bed. I just about held it together.

It's funny, it doesn't look deliberate, they just didn't even notice she was there, like she was invisible :-(

There are about 8 and they were in two groups that merged intermittently, but she was never part of it.

Only 8 girls....it's not many. I moved my DD from a school recently where she was one of 4...she was ok but I worried that by the time they got to ten or so, it would be hard.

I think you need to get her out of there...(they are NOT managing things well) and into a larger class...where there are proper things in place ot help DCs with all this.

I also think you need to get her into drama or something...that will help her become more visible

Have you spoken to her about the tricks of the trade when it comes to friendships? I had to give my DD a talk...she was getting grumpy and leaving her friend if her friend tried to play something she wasnt keen on...I explained about give and take....there's also a book I have seen reccomended on here about all this..."Queen Bees and Wannabe's"

I think you need to get a bit tiger mum here....she sounds adorable, bright and pleasant...but somewhere something is hindering her...

Aw love. I am amazed that girls that young can behave like this. It's just really bad luck. Look for another school. Really. Things can be better than this. I am so sorry you and DD are having to deal with such shit.

Chas, how was your daughter after you moved her? Was it the right thing to do?

And just remember; your daughter is so lucky that she has you, and that you care.