to think some parents are totally unrealistic about how schools work?

[CailinDana]

I'm a former primary teacher (now SAHM) and I loved my job but the attitude some parents had towards me and my colleagues was one of the worst aspects of being a teacher. Despite having never taught, and being a maximum age of eleven when they were last in a primary school, some parents seem to think that they know far better than teachers how to run a school.

Some threads on MN give me flashbacks to those parents. It just makes my blood boil when parents seem to be putting everything teachers do under a microscope as though they're bound to be doing something wrong. Some parents seem to be under the impression that teachers are minor dictators, completely controlling everything in the classroom with no professional standards or supervision. Other parents believe that a teacher, one solitary adult, should be au fait with every little aspect of every child's progress and ability (eg reading books) at all times despite having at least 25 children to teach. Who do they think teachers are? Where do they get these ideas from?

I do definitely think that parents should be involved in their child's education but I have seen good, hardworking teachers ground down by overbearing parents who question their every move. Teaching is a difficult enough job without feeling like people who have no real understanding of the job are constantly monitoring you. AIBU to think that to a large extent parents should trust teachers to have their children's best interests at heart and that they should try to have realistic expectations of what teachers can actually do?

YANBU

I am not and have never been a teacher but agree wholeheartedly.

The problem is you only see the "some" parents whingeing on MN. Most of us can't be arsed and let the teachers get on with it.

This sort of thing does tail off as DC approach secondary school IME.
Why is that do you think?

Oh and can I add one more thing if any of the parents I mentioned are reading - if your child comes home and tells you something happened at school, please for the love of God, check with an adult that what the child is saying is accurate, please. This is especially essential if the child is under 7. I was always beyond amazed when parents came into me all guns blazing, complaining about something that was a very hazy approximation of what actually happened.

yanbu!

Agree OP! It's called 'listening to the whole story' !

YANBU
SOME parents attitudes towards teachers and schools really infuriates me both as a parent and as a professional. Classic today I overheard a child and parent talking in playground. Child was complaining that they would be in trouble for not doing their homework. Parents response was " Just forget it, teachers are all mardy she cant make you do it!!.
I mean if thats the attitude how do teachers stand a chance of controlling behaviour if the child knows there is no respect between teacher and parent.

"Other parents believe that a teacher, one solitary adult, should be au fait with every little aspect of every child's progress and ability (eg reading books) at all times despite having at least 25 children to teach. Who do they think teachers are?"

Yes, a teacher should be au fait with every little aspect of each child's progress and ability. If the teacher shouldn't, who should?

I am married to a teacher so I do understand where you are coming from, but I think this is a symptom of a wider problem in society these days - parents are just pushier! Perhaps because a lot of mothers had, or still have, careers and that makes them view education in terms of service delivery .... I know I do. I don't think this is a bad thing! If I think that something is wrong with my children's education, I will say so (although my children attend a fee-paying school so possibly that makes me even pushier - but that's a whole other thread). Whether private or state, I believe that parents and children are the customers and should be treated as such, but I have had this conversation/argument many times before on MN and teachers never agree with me. DH doesn't agree with me either!!

League tables have a lot to do with it too. Everyone wants what they perceive to be "the best" for their children.

That said, I couldn't / wouldn't be a teacher and I am full of admiration and gratitude towards anyone who is!

On a serious note, perhaps there should be a module in the PGCE / teaching degree entitled How to Handle Parents' Expectations or similar? And perhaps parents' expectations should be managed a lot more firmly at the New Parents' Evening at the start of each school year? I'd be interested in hearing what teachers think about this - would it help??

(So it's a sort of part YABU and part YANBU from me!)

YANBU

I am constantly amazed by how other paents talk about their childrens' teachers.

I don't question teachers' every move btw. If I think something is wrong/amiss/questionable I discuss with DH first to get a teacher's perspective ... I would never go steaming into the school with all guns blazing or anything like that.

Just needed to clarify that I'm not one of those mums

So are you sugeseting i dont go in all guns blazing tomorrow as DD has just told me they went to Somalia on the walking bus at school today and looked at the local shops.... I did not get a permission slip for that!!!

Some of it is to do with the shocking communication between parents and teachers. We were definitely not allowed to make any suggestions or question anything at all. If we did the teacher was very defensive. (Small village primary school-set in it's ways.

Interesting post MrsMcEnroe. Do you really believe that a teacher should hold the constantly changing progress levels of 25+ children in his/her head at all times? So if you went to your child's teacher and said "how is my child doing in maths?" what would you expect the teacher to say? If you asked me that about a child when I was a teacher, I'd be able to give a general answer but I would have to check data etc to give specifics. Would that be ok with you?

YA sort of BU

Though you're teaching - parents have the full legal responsibility of ensuring their child receives an education suitable to their age, ability and aptitude. Sure they should be reasonable and polite, and it's obviously best if school and home can work in partnership, but at the end of the day they have to legally (and morally) take full responsibility for education so I'd say they DO have to be happy with it? So I agree with MrsMcEnroe about the fact that they should be seen as the 'consumers' of a service.

Agree with you to a very large extent. But I'd like to say that leaving your child with a bunch of strangers when you've absolutely no idea what's going on all day is quite hard. It's the communication or lack of that confuses everybody. I mean, why say in writing - your child will be given two reading books a week which you must read with them - and then not give them out? i'd also like to say, please teachers don't believe everything my child says to you. It's not true that she eats chocolate every day, watches Dr Who at age 5 or that she had dog food for dinner last night. A teacher very seriously questionned me about the last one. But on the whole I agree with you. It astonishes me the things some parents complain about at school.

Sparklingbrook I think some teachers end up defensive because of terrible past experiences. For example when I was a naive young teacher, I had a very open classroom (unlike my colleagues) and I chatted a lot to the parents. One parent in particular took this as an open invitation to interfere in every aspect of the day to day life of the classroom. I won't bore you with the whole gory affair but in the end we had to have a schoolwide ban on parents stepping foot in classrooms - it got that bad.

I can understand that some parents are very interested in their child's education, and believe me an interested parent is far better than a hostile or actively disinterested parent, but it can be incredibly insulting to have someone who clearly doesn't understand teaching to come in, even with the best intentions, and make "suggestions" that are usually totally unworkable. It takes an incredible amount of hard work for a good teacher to get a classroom running smoothly and making even the smallest change to the routine can be highly disruptive. Some parents don't seem to understand that.

To put it simply I wouldn't go to a nurse and say "I think you should your ward rounds this way" because even though to me things might look and feel inefficient, most of the time the nurse will be doing their best to run things as best they can given the constraints of their job. Commenting on someone else's job when you have no expertise yourself is rude at best, highly insulting at worst.

My mum is a reception teacher, I know if I asked her about the progress of any child in her class, she would be aware of their abilities and limitations, and as she is familar with levels etc would be able to tell me the standard she feels that dc is working at or towards.

As a parent I wouldn't be comfortable with the you telling me you will have to check because yes I do expect my child's teacher to have in depth knowledge of her strengths and weaknesses. The nursery teachers always did, even the parent toddler group leaders (who are teachers) who have a lot more then 25 kids to deal with, know the progress of all the children that attend the various groups, and comment every time they see them.doing something new, and suggest activities to parents, when they notice something is up etc.

I can totally understand that Cailin. there will always be a few that overstep the mark.

I dared to question something in Yr4 and it caused uproar. It does seem to be Primary School parents who are obsessed with what reading book their little darling has compared to the others etc.

When they moved to Middle School it was all fine. Now DS1 is at High School there is very little contact with the teachers anyway.

MrsMcEnroe - I totally agree with everything you said.

I am a consumer of eduction, in my case I pay for it as a taxpayer and also paying fees for private school so I jolly well expect teachers to deliver. In general I do let teachers teach. My total contact with teachers at DS1 or DS2 school is about 4 - 5 occasisons a year but when I see them I expect them to know my child very well and if something is wrong I intervene and expect action.

I am not overbearing but teachers are human and some of them are bad at their job and most are good or very good. Like any service I pay for it is my job to monitor its delivery and make sure I am getting what I pay for.

What I mean nailak is that I wouldn't know every child's sublevel off the top of my head. So I could say "X is listening well in maths and has improved in his tables and his understanding of fractions" but I would have to check my data before I'd be able to say "and he's moved from level 2c to 3a since September." That doesn't apply so much to reception where levels aren't such a big deal.

I am not a service provider. I am a teacher. An educator. And the students are not customers. What happens in the classroom, between teachers and learners bears no relationship whatsoever to the purchase of a service. That is one if the most philistine comments I've ever read.

YANBU. Totally agree with everything you said. I dont think I could be a teacher as the parents would drive me insane given the things people moan about on here. God forbid, a poor teacher forgets to change a reading book one night, you would think the world had ended and thats without the "my child is of Mensa standard and the teachers hasnt noticed" etc.

School trips and uniforms are another bug bear, surely it cant be a surprise that parents have to buy uniform or pay for trips yet the amount of moaning that arises from both is overwheming. Children are expensive, common knowledge before having children I would have thought.

It's six and two threes really. Some teachers are a PITA and so are some parents. You'd probably hate me - I refuse to take crap from school - my child's education is important. However I do discuss concerns with the school, but if an equitable resolution can't be found I vote with my (child's) feet and move schools. Did this with DS and will with DD if her teacher doesn't get her act together.

You'll probably be your child's teachers biggest PITA being an ex-teacher

IMO it's the attitude of parents like MoreBeta that push good teachers out of the job. When you invest your heart and soul into teaching and you have to face the attitude that you're a service provider then you think "fuck it, why am I even bothering." It is the number crunchers, the sycophants and the game-players that will suit your needs MoreBeta. Your attitude creates an education system full of teachers who couldn't care less but who produce the results and say the right thing at all times. You might as well send your children to a call centre for their education.