to think some parents are totally unrealistic about how schools work?

[CailinDana]

I'm a former primary teacher (now SAHM) and I loved my job but the attitude some parents had towards me and my colleagues was one of the worst aspects of being a teacher. Despite having never taught, and being a maximum age of eleven when they were last in a primary school, some parents seem to think that they know far better than teachers how to run a school.

Some threads on MN give me flashbacks to those parents. It just makes my blood boil when parents seem to be putting everything teachers do under a microscope as though they're bound to be doing something wrong. Some parents seem to be under the impression that teachers are minor dictators, completely controlling everything in the classroom with no professional standards or supervision. Other parents believe that a teacher, one solitary adult, should be au fait with every little aspect of every child's progress and ability (eg reading books) at all times despite having at least 25 children to teach. Who do they think teachers are? Where do they get these ideas from?

I do definitely think that parents should be involved in their child's education but I have seen good, hardworking teachers ground down by overbearing parents who question their every move. Teaching is a difficult enough job without feeling like people who have no real understanding of the job are constantly monitoring you. AIBU to think that to a large extent parents should trust teachers to have their children's best interests at heart and that they should try to have realistic expectations of what teachers can actually do?

Two words, KittyFane.

Eton College

huh? I'm a secondary teacher and yeah by this time in the year I probably know pretty much what each student has achieved and how they are progressing in my subject. I'm fairly lucky as have only about 250 - some teachers who have close on 600 are still supposed to know this at our school. For my KS3 students I'd probably need to check my notes but right now I can tell you exactly where any of my 11s or13s are at as close of today and what they need to achieve their target grade. I am supposed to know (and I do) not just any special educational needs but how they prefer to learn and what senses they use to do so. For my tutor group I know most family backgrounds and issues and and vaguely how they are doing in all of their subjects as well as what they want in their future careers.

I'm not an especially outstanding teacher every teacher in my school is supposed to know this and we are constantly observed and monitored

So when I go into school to talk about my ds in primary school...er yes I do expect them to know him as at least as well as I know mine.

I am always positive and encouraging to them appreciating the problems of differentiation etc And very respectful and appreciative where it is due. The Yr4 teacher probably had a pic of me pinned on the door with a target drawn on it but he should have done his job and worked harder - teaching shouldn't be a refuge for people who want an easy life, I rather like parents ringing me up and giving me info - the only parent who has ever made a complaint about me who told me I was an evil woman who was too cruel to be a teacher was because I removed her daughters phone until the end of the lesson (obv going to hell for that one)

Sounds perfect
Although I bet they are under a bloody massive microscope at EC.
Having said that, the masters are probably all old boys and in the same circle as mummy and daddy so maybe not so bad after all.

Last post to grovel

OP - you are assuming all teachers are equal. Frankly they aren't. DS's current teacher is wonderful, & I cannot praise him, or my son's current SENCO enough. His previous HT shouldn't be allowed to work with young kids unsupervised under any circumstances without therapy for anger management imho!

In the case of SEN parents ofetn DO know better than the teacher on many topics sadly. We spend hours researching/attending courses/conferences/meeting with subject experts that an ordinary teacher wth 30 kids in a class doesn't have time to. A typical PGCE course is one afternoon on ALL sen + one essay, whereas we LIVE it 24/7, (unless things have changed greatly since I did it).

At the school where I was completely ignored DS's behavior age 6 deterioarted to the point the HT lost it and wrapped her arms round his throat. When I collected him that day his arms were covered in bruises. That school also refused to listen to his Gran - a retired sen teacher herself used to managing 6 foot teens who in 40 years never lost her temper with a child.

At his current school where my views have been taken into account? He's taking part in concerts and doing really well - behavior management is a doddle (he's 7 it's really not that hard to manage a 7 year old!).

I also wish that the government would allow Primary teachers to concentrate their energies into how to best teach the 3R's rather than expect them to indoctrinate parents on home discipline/ healthy eating etc too. I expect a teacher to be free to be able to educate so I can concentrate on parenting. It's a simple split of duties that worked for generations. This is the generation where parents are no longer trusted to raise their own kids.

A teacher should not be expected to do a HV or social workers job! Their ONLY job should be to teach. The time primary teachers are forced by government to spend on nonsense like doling out parenting advice and telling grown adults to give their children veggies/checking packed lunches would be better spent researching things like dyslexia so those children who ARE NOT making the expected progress can be educated instead of just babysat, as all too often happens at present.

If teachers can't keep up with where each of their students abilities are up to, I suggest something needs to change. I'm pretty sure it's part of a teachers' job to track progress of each child, and have a plan for each child's learning. I know some teachers that work well over 60 hours a week so that this happens, not necessarily because they're paid to, (I'm pretty sure they aren't), but because they care. I hope that at the very least the majority of teachers are the same.
I'm all for educating dc at home as much as possible before they start school, and will not rely on any school for anything other than teaching and ensuring my dc's safety while they are there.

"Despite having never taught, and being a maximum age of eleven when they were last in a primary school, some parents seem to think that they know far better than teachers how to run a school."

Do you actually know what every parent has ever worked at, OP? Serious question this; I often wonder how to hint to a teacher that I might actually understand something of their subject without coming across as arrogant. Some teachers do seem to assume that no parent has been through higher education and that no parent has any teaching experience of their own.

The parents I know who have got the best deals ever for their SN children, and who have consistently challenged the system and refused to be fobbed off with waffle have all been, er, teachers or former teachers.

My own inclination is to be a laidback parent and not enquire to closely about how the teachers chose to manage their class, but I have to admit I was let down badly by dd's primary school.

It was only later I found out how absolutely appalling their treatment of her was (refusing a disabled child access to the disabled toilet because they wanted to keep it clean for visitors, leaving her alone in the classroom during maths lessons because they couldn't be bothered to change the sets so she have access etc etc).

Dd didn't think to tell me these things because like the OP she assumed the teachers must have the right to make their decisions without outside interference.

I didn't think to monitor because I thought the teachers could be trusted.

yabu and bloody conceding .
threads like this make me glad that my child is not in MS, but in a lovely sn school where parents are made welcome and their input valued.
perhaps if you treated parents better they would treat you better

Not getting the vitriol to the OP here - surely the general point is that most teachers do in fact know best, since it is their job? Both my parents were/are academics but totally trusted the teachers to do their job when we were at school, and I am inclined to do the same.
I guess if you have really specific issues with SN then it might be different, but I can't fathom the general teacher bashing (or doctor/midwife/HV bashing) that goes on here.

Teachers should know best and often do - sometimes they don't for whatever reason and need to....

Sevenfold, the OP was making a general point about some parents. At no point was parental involvement devalued.

cory - yes we were inclined to be laid back with DSs school. We kept telling ourselves not to be overbearing and pushy. The school just coasted along and we were damn lucky we figured out that they were failing our DSs badly so we eventually intervened - almost too late. We were told we were being unreasonable by the Head but then we found other parents were also complaining. We were all being fobbed off!

LoveHandles - I can certainly tell you how each of my students are doing, just not off the top of my head! That's why I have a markbook.

I have no problem with parents caring about their childrens' progress, I have no problem with working together in a partnership with them to ensure the best outcome for their child. I fully appreciate that parents have much more experience in dealing with their own children and am more than willing to take their advice on board, as long as they realise that the situation is different with 30 children. That has got to be the best way for children to achieve - a partnership between home and school, with each 'stakeholder' (ugh) playing their part.

I guess teachers just get a little bit defensive when the consensus seems to be that we are thick, lazy morons who couldn't get a job in the 'real world', and that there are some people who think they can do our job just because they went to school 20 years ago.

I am anxious to trust professionals to a certain point, but not to the point where I refuse to accept that I may understand some things better than they, either because they happen to be part of my profession as well or because I have had reason to make a special study of them.

Dd's medical condition is a case in point- as it is quite rare, most GPs or even paediatric consultants have not read the medical literature around it. I have because I needed to.

As a professional myself, I don't want to be trusted in that absolutely unquestioning manner: if I make a mistake I want to be challenged. Intelligently and constructively, yes, but still challenged.

Teaching is a difficult enough job without feeling like people who have no real understanding of the job are constantly monitoring you

You bet your bottom dollar I'll be monitoring you, I wouldn't be much of a parent if I just had blind faith

Every job I ever did I was monitored.

I used to run a fleet of ships. Do you think no one monitored me? Do you think the captains of those ships just did what I said without question? Do you think my bosses didnt keep an eye on what I was doing? There were multiple eyes watching everything.

I used to run a bank trading operation. I monitored the traders. My bosses monitored me. Again multiple eyes monitoring the operation and pretty forcefully questioning decisions I made at times as I questioned others.

I now use IT service providers, lawyers, stockbrokers and accountants in my work. I monitor what they do for me. I question them. I work with them. I dont try and do their job though.

Don't be daft. Everyone is monitored at work.

cailin, just to point out - the scottish curriculum is very different to the english curriculum in terms of autonomy and methods. i've quite a few friends who trained here and are now in england due to the dire job situation here just now.

not that we're paid/valued more !

Of course, I ran internal audits within our company myself, this will not stop me monitoring DS teachers when he starts school.

I have been in charge of 30 contractors staff in a previous life, I knew within 6 weeks their full names, family circumstances, skill set, any gaps in their knowledge and how best to manage them. If I hadn't I would have wasted a great deal of public money and been sacked.
That ought to apply to other professions IMO.

wherearemysocka I'm not sure I could memorise all that info either!!! But, given the name of a child, I would expect a teacher to be able to know (even if it means a quick look in a book) how a child is doing. I completely agree that schools and parents should have a partnership when it comes to school. I think it's important that parents encourage their dcs to learn all the time so that they want to learn and enjoy learning new things. I think it makes a teacher's job much harder if the kids don't have much enthusiasm for it all.
raffle I agree that blind faith in schools is not the best way to go!!!

Fair enough - just seemed to be the impression some posters were giving! The term 'monitoring' just seems rather accusatory - working from an assumption that the teacher is wrong and crap and doesn't know what they're doing. I compare it with my experience of the NHS - when I was diagnosed with my condition the first thing I did was research it so that I could ask informed questions. I wouldn't have automatically assumed that I knew more than the doctors and nurses who had treated many people before me with the same problem.

Exactly, you are monitored by your boss and colleagues, Morebeta.

There is a difference between supine acceptance of what the school/teachers deliver and pure interfering.