to think some parents are totally unrealistic about how schools work?

[CailinDana]

I'm a former primary teacher (now SAHM) and I loved my job but the attitude some parents had towards me and my colleagues was one of the worst aspects of being a teacher. Despite having never taught, and being a maximum age of eleven when they were last in a primary school, some parents seem to think that they know far better than teachers how to run a school.

Some threads on MN give me flashbacks to those parents. It just makes my blood boil when parents seem to be putting everything teachers do under a microscope as though they're bound to be doing something wrong. Some parents seem to be under the impression that teachers are minor dictators, completely controlling everything in the classroom with no professional standards or supervision. Other parents believe that a teacher, one solitary adult, should be au fait with every little aspect of every child's progress and ability (eg reading books) at all times despite having at least 25 children to teach. Who do they think teachers are? Where do they get these ideas from?

I do definitely think that parents should be involved in their child's education but I have seen good, hardworking teachers ground down by overbearing parents who question their every move. Teaching is a difficult enough job without feeling like people who have no real understanding of the job are constantly monitoring you. AIBU to think that to a large extent parents should trust teachers to have their children's best interests at heart and that they should try to have realistic expectations of what teachers can actually do?

Feel your pain OP.

This morning i caught the teacher's eye as a mum came in all guns blazing about her DC book not having been changed this week. Teacher replied calmly that the book had been changed but child forgot to take it home.

Teacher managed not to roll eyes.

YANBU.
Some parents have no interest in the class as a whole, only their own DC. Therefore when they go to see the school play they moan about 'why didn't my DC get a main part' they never look at as a whole and think 'wasn't little Josh fantastic in the main part'. (they assume little Josh's parent is on the PTA!!)

The main problem is an unwillingness to start with a chat with the teacher-people will pile straight in on threads and aggressively tell them to see the Head.
It is always best to start with a chat. There was one a few months ago where 'the teacher hit a perfectly well behaved DD on the arm' and the well behaved DD 'never told lies'. There were masses of messages with the general consensus (of the more moderate) that her DD had misunderstood. The poster never came back, despite being asked for an update, so I expect that it was all a mountain out of a molehill. These things often are.

The best advice is 'get to know the teacher and pop in a have a calm, friendly chat if you have concerns'-only go higher up if you can't resolve it.

My complaint in Yr4 was about the teacher's lack of creativity. But that was not allowed.

To the Mums who expect teachers to carry the levels of all the children they teach around in their heads:
I'm a secondary teacher and teach over 300 children a week (I kid you not, just worked it out!), some of whom I see for only one hour. Do you think I should be able to carry all their individual sub-levels etc in my head? That would take an awful lot of memorising of data that could be better spent actually planning lessons and marking. Yes I can tell you the ability of class they are in and how they are performing generally, but anything more and I would need to check my planner!

Can you elaborate Sparkling?

I have known teachers change jobs purely because, although they like the school and the DCs, they can't stand the parents!

I am always left thinking after reading threads like this that some teachers became teachers because they simply wanted a job where they could work alone and not be supervised or monitored and basically do as they please.

I get the feeling that any intervention by parents (or Govt) is deeply resented by some teachers because it interferes with what they want out of the job. They resent the idea that they be expected to deliver a service to a given standard and they have customers. Well I say, get in the real world!

My children have had truely wonderful inspiring teachers. I had truely wonderful teachers. Just a few teachers should not be in the job and I woudl not employ them in any job where I had to manage them. They should be artists or writers or work for themselves alone.

marriedinwhite if you refer to third of children going through to secondary with attainment which does not permit them to progress, then I do disagree. I take it you're referring to Level 4. This level originally described the attainment of the average child at the end of KS2. You'd expect at least third to be below this. For political reasons this was then changed to being the target. This is why children have to be drilled to get these levels at all, and why so many secondary schools re-test on entry as the children have been hot-housed/bored silly.

Also, if you look at the literacy descriptors just below Level 4, you'll find they do not describe the functionally illiterate.

Morebeta, it is not the job of schools to prepare your child for entrance exams.

Well I had 2 DC go through the school. They are 3 school years apart. In Year 4 DS2 was doing exactly the same as DS1 had in Year4 but more of it. It involved projects. DS1 did one in Year4 and DS2 had to produce one a term during Year 3 and 4 (mixed class by then). So by about project 4 (each one had to be a 5 minute at least presentation) Ds2 was bored of them and it was bloody hard work. I dared to question it.

echt - it is their job when they are a Prep school. It is what they do!

I am always left thinking after reading threads like this that some teachers became teachers because they simply wanted a job where they could work alone and not be supervised or monitored and basically do as they please.

They would be particularly stupid if they thought this!! You get observed and monitored all the time.
When I was a supply teacher I never knew who was going to be in the room with me, but it was a lot easier with extra adults.

In fact the first question on supply was 'have I got anyone in with me?' It was wonderful if I had a TA and a few parents.

I take it you're referring to a private school, then. If so, then more fool you for pissing your money away. Take your custom elsewhere.

I was considering reporting the teacher to ofsted for taking the children on an unauthorised trip... on an aeroplane to france... in one afternoon.

I have also done lessons in front of the Head or Deputy when I have been on supply, I have had governors turn up to help and once the local MP turned up! You don't work alone these days!

I never understand why people pay for private education they don't like!

Some teachers are great
Some are ok
Some are shit

Oh, just like the rest of life.

exotic - we moved schools and they have now sacked the Head. We are very very happy with the new school DSs are at.

'AIBU to think that to a large extent parents should trust teachers to have their children's best interests at heart and that they should try to have realistic expectations of what teachers can actually do?'

YABU. Why should we when practice, particularly in SEN is based on the 'professional opinion' of a teacher than had an optional hald day training on SEN in general, rather than evidence-based?

What does this suggest about their 'training' standards in general, particularly with the inclusion agenda?

Now I'm not saying that children's best interests are not in the 'hearts' of many teachers, but I think the problem with teachers is that some of them think that is all that is needed and get defensive when their practice is challenged, even if it stipulates clearly in their professional standards that they should be open to coaching and new ideas.

I find the wider view of education being a service an interesting one. I have worked with parents and students in uni's and secondary schools and it's an opinion that is definitely increasing.

Parents have informed me that as they are receiving a service they should be able to dictate the format of the lesson, subjects, curriculum etc. These are things which are agreed centrally and are not changeable by the individual teacher.

Also teachers are monitored now more than ever. There is very little autonomy - One of the reasons i left teaching.

"-In Ireland, primary teaching is a sought-after profession.
-Teaching salaries are much much higher in Ireland than in Britain."

I think your first two points are very important. They don't suggest to me that simply letting teachers get on with things would improve matters; they suggest to me that making teaching a more respected and better rewarded profession would improve the quality of entrants.

There are some excellent teachers out there; there are also some who are not that great at their job, and also some whose grasp of basic numeracy and literacy (including spelling and grammar) leave much to be desired.

Unfortunately we live in a very unequal society and one which has few decently paid jobs open to those with few or no qualifications. As a result most parents, not unreasonably IMO, have a strong interest in their child's progress in school and feel the need to intervene if they don't appear to be achieving at or above the expected level.

On the whole YANBU.

We've always looked on in baffled horror at the very many pushy parents in our north London enclave grilling and haranguing the teachers.

The irony is it is almost always the parents of the naughtiest/least bright kids that accuse the teachers of not realising little Alfie/Harry/Amelie is bored and unchallenged because he/she is a Mensa level genius - which accounts for their under achievement.

Yanbu. I can't rwally think of any other job that is as scrutinized and even interfered with as a teaching one.

And why take a stance that parents know NOTHING about education or classroom management? Why be that defensive when the best schools are those that are at the heart of their community with heavy parental involvment.

Why not accept that parents jobs, careers and experiences CAN make a difference and improve standards and that it is in their interest to do so.

Why not accept that they can bring new things to a school that a teacher who went to primary, secondary, teacher-training and back to school cannot?

Two words starlight
Home school.