AIBU about the government lying about DLA

[Notthefullshilling]

First time AIBU long time (nah not really) lurker. I also posted this in other topics but thought this would also attract the numbers of viewers that it deserves.

So disabled people asked then ignored about benefit changes.

www.periscopepost.com/2012/01/spartacus-report-government-buried-opposition-to-disability-living-allowance-reform/

diaryofabenefitscrounger.blogspot.com/

www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/16008

So the short version is that no one wants the reform of DLA, particularly not the overwhelming number who responded to the governments own consultation.
Also rejected were the proposals to change the way the benefit is assessed, as well as the length of time that people would need to wait before qualifying for the benefit, last but not least rejected was the changes to the rates and the levels of benefit payable.

No apologies for saying this is the true face of compassionate conservatism.

One more thing...

Did you know your ESA and DLA appeals can now be withdrawn simply by a decision maker telling a tribunal clerk, without providing any evidence whatsoever, that you told them on the telephone you no longer wish to carry on. It will then be your responsibility to try to get your appeal reinstated within a tight time-limit. The shock change to the principle that appeals can only be withdrawn by the claimant themselves, and only in writing, was introduced last month in a bid to reduce the growing backlog of appeals. (Via Benefits and Work)

No, I didn't. I thought the right to appeal was something that people had a legal right to appeal through European law. So I assumed that would mean it had to be looked at properly!

How can they expect so much fight from people that are in that position because of disability or illness FFS?!

Nope, they've broken their own rules of conduct with this one. Presenting it to the commons 2 weeks before it's was supposed to so it didnt contain all the data. Underhanded and sneeky doesnt even begin to describe it.

As for the esa and dla appeals, I've only just found out this one myself so I'm looking into it right now.

They are not expecting a fight for that reason exactly. The disabled and carers are an easy target. Especially when they have worked so hard in keeping it so fucking quiet and away from the public. I'm hoping that it's going to back fire on them BIG TIME and with any luck - get them out of power because ANYONE is better than that lot in power if this is how low they will stoop.

The figures they have presented to the Commons and the House of Lords have all been proven to be false after the Spartacus report came out, House of Lords recognised this and have also recognised that these proposals so far (including the one where they tried to limit ESA claims for Cancer patients to 12 months (3 months of which you will be waiting for a decision and wont receive any money but they didnt say that until the opposing peers commented on it)) are not only imoral but crossing the line in common decency - so ruled in favour for an amendment (a re think if you will)

Government are now saying that they are going to ignore the Lords rulings, and force it through anyway. Pissed off? and they havent even started yet.

House of Lords will vote on the DLA changes on the 17th.

Even if the rules go in our favour, the commons will fight against it and plan to use something called Financial somethingorother (will find out later)to force it through without the Lords permission.

Kitchenroll I think it's perfectly ok to not understand and also, if this doesn't affect you, to have the attitude of 'everyone is facing cuts, why shouldn't disabled people.' Thank you for asking questions and trying to find out more.

If I can explain some things - the reason disabled people shouldn't have to shoulder the cuts is because 1 in 3 disabled people live in poverty and if you have a serious enough disability, you don't have any way at all of getting yourself out of that. You might have all sorts of degrees and qualifications and experience but it won't help you. Chances are you will have run down your savings paying for medical aids (things like wheelchairs are vastly expensive - think anywhere from £2,000-£30,000 and no one pays for that for you. The NHS offers vouchers worth £200 towards the cost, or did the last time I checked), transport costs, carers (social services won't pay for mine. I have to, and she is expensive. I don't get nearly as many hours as I need because DLA doesn't cover it) If you are living in poverty, are ill long term and can't work and don't have enough money to actually cover the costs that emerge due to your health, how can you afford to lose more? You shouldn't have to, it's as simple as that. As a society we must protect our vulnerable.

This issue is especially galling when you think of the vast sums it's going to cost taxpayers to have everyone re-assessed for PIP (which is replacing DLA) and the huge percentage of appeals there will be when PIP finds people inaccurately fit for work. Appeals are expensive. Plus there are all the extra benefits that will have to be paid because people who are in work now thanks to DLA (e.g it helps them pay for transport to get to work because they can't take the bus) will have to give up their jobs. Plus there are people like my carer who will lose x hours of work a week because people like me won't be able to afford to pay them anymore. So more people on benefits thanks to that. Taking away DLA is going to cost the tax payer. It won't save them money.

You write 'but how do I as a lay person know that they understood the changes fully and were able to make an informed disagreement?' I would urge you to read even 5 pages of the Spartacus report. It is very clear. It would show you that disabled people (or many, many of them) understand every change and are terrified of the outcome. There are many very educated disabled people. I have a first in my degree. I went to Oxbridge. Lots of people only become disabled later in life. Your question makes me realise how successful the press has been in portraying us as 'Shameless' scroungers who sit there in filthy clothes, smoking, and showing no interest in anything that goes on in life.

I sincerely believe there are going to be a number of suicides if DLA is abolished. That's how scared people are. What happens if, like me, you're genuinely too ill to work (but desperately want to!!), but a government agency/private company say 'we find you well enough to work' and then you have no income and aren't eligible for benefits because when you apply to them are told 'but this form says you're fit to work.' Seriously, what happens? How do you live?

Again, thank you for asking questions. Ignorance, or lack of knowledge is fine if you do something about it.

Found this earlier too which will cheer a lot of people up for a few minutes..IDS recognises he's made a few errors

clicky

IDS recognises that not all benefit claiments are scroungers and that he's been pushing the media too hard.

It's absolutely terrifying.

Worzel, your first paragraph I understand, most know, and relate to completely. I didnt know that 1 in 3 disabled people live in poverty, that is quite a shocking stat.

As as said in my mammoth post, I feel like I have quite a good understanding of disability and how it affects people, but I have no real understanding of the financial worries of disabled people. The nature of what I do brings me into contact with many disabled people, but they are generally people who are very adventurous and tend to have disposable income. I fear that skews my perception quite a bit.

You mentioned how much the proposed system could cost. I think hearing stuff like you talked about actually makes it harder to understand simply because it makes no sense! (not what you wrote, what you told me, iyswim!) I couldn't give a toss how much stuff costs as long as people get what they need, and it just makes no sense that they would spend money on stuff that has no benefit to people at the same time as making people suffer! That kind of stupidity is o hard to get your head round that I think people probably don't realise the reality so think it can't be that bad. I see myself as only just emerging from that category!

I will attempt to read some of the Spartacus report tomorrow. I didn't mean to sound patronising when I said 'how do I know that disabled people understand it properly', I really didn't. I know that disabled people aren't uneducated and I don't think that I personally can be included as someone who was influenced by the press.

I'm going off on a tangent here, but today I had to say goodbye to a friend who became disabled because of a neurological disease. She was much older than me at 72, but she was the most intelligent person I think I have ever known. A truly amazing mind, and a huge amount of fight and courage. She took her own life after Christmas to, in her words, 'kill the illness before it killed her'. I don't know if future financial worries had a part to play in that. I think not in her particular situation, but I don't know.

I digress, sorry! Just thinking a lot about it today, as you would.

Thanks for answering me without flaming. It really makes a difference and I hope it makes it easier for others who feel as I do to understand.

Molepom, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your clicky. It seems bizarre to see such high up politicians admitting to such blatant fuck ups!

I'm still not sure what to do either, and I found out about it this morning as it was emailed to me.

ds2 has mild cerebral palsy, autism, bilateral integration disorder, learning difficulties plus a couple of medical conditions.
We do claim DLA BUT I know many families with disabled children who are far more severly disabled than my son who do not claim because the process is so awful.
Filling in page after page of everything your child isnt able to do & putting down in black & white how very different they are compared to typical children of the same age . Its hard, its heartbreaking!

Especially when you have a constant stream of reports, appointments etc etc to keep up with and of course the education system to battle with.
many families do not have the energy or the time to complete the process.

The bottom line is it is expensive to have a disabled child.

Maybe investing money in providing support in completing the process to those in need will ensure money goes to those genuine claimants and deter those falsely claiming

Well, if these reforms go ahead you wouldnt have to worry about that as your claim will most likely be refused. Id rather fill out a 40 page form with supporting documents that is the DLA than deal with the waste of space, time and money that it ATOS.

I have MS. It comes and goes when it feels like it and I'm knackered 99% of the time. I get the lower rate of DLA at the moment, this is because they have said I'm too tired to cook a meal and am a danger to myself. I wasn't awarded mobility despite being in pain and becoming tired easily when walking. I think the most DLA fraud is the mobility element; people claiming that they can not walk when they can. The form itself is a nightmare. It puts people off applying, as does the worry that they could be accused of fraud if they receive it. ATOS will take it off me if I'm sent an appointment, they judge people in 20 minutes and know better then doctors who know the medical conditions inside out and have, in some cases, spent years treating the patient. It's a stupid system.

I've written a thread in AIBU already about this, but my mum has just come through the worst time with regards to getting taken off her disability allowances, as they told her she was getting better (when she has a degenerative condition, so this was news to all of us ). The stress that it put her under, when she already suffers from clinical depression, was awful and DC and his cronies should be utterly ashamed of themselves for what they're putting people through (not that he'd care of course). They truly don't deserve to be in power and put people through this, it is beyond human decency.

It's disgusting.

So...

Who else is going to sign the petition today?

me! - just done it

My mum is an active campaigner, and it always makes me laugh when she gets called back for assessment, do they think it will have grown back?!

It sickens me how much apathy there is to this, and how little is in the media.

I have the petition linked on my FB, not sure how much good it'll do.

Thank you both of you.

You may not think it'll make much difference but the more people we can make aware of it, the more signatures, the more publicity and then they will have to think about reforming them, even if the the bill has been forced through.

I still can not believe the support from the Daily Mail, the Guardian AND the Mirror! Small comments from columists so far but every little bit helps.

I have Follow Fridayed @suey2y #spartacusreport today. And it links to my Facebook page.

I didn't see Newsnight or Question Time, how did it go?

It was disgusting. All he kept saying was that it's only going to cut off those who can afford to live off their families and disabled children that are in line for huge inheritances when that's not the case at all. For the entire 10 minutes of the interview, Sue was constantly cut off by the him AND the BBC interviewer. He didnt answer any of Sues questions It was really easy to see who the BBC sided with and just how far removed from the Real world the Politician was.

More time was spent on the PIP implants and the scottish thing which went on forever.

As for question time, nothing was mentioned about it, nothing at all.

I have read that the disabled people who wrote the Spartacus report have had their conditions worsened by the effort involved in this fight, and some of them have been hospitalised.

That is what it is like for us. If we don't fight, we are abused. If we do fight, we get worse, sometimes a lot worse.

It's made the Today Programme on Radio 4 this morning! Trouble is it was not on until 8.45 when most people are on their way to work/school run .

If you want to listen (Peter White is interviewed about DLA), go to Radio 4 website, click schedule and press play on the Today programme. Click the I Just Want to Live Independently link.

Oh .

I was listening to Today in the car but only until about 8.40 so just missed it.

For anyone who hasn't already signed, here is the link to the petition