In thinking that if you won't go out alone at night because you've got a vagina, you are actually a bit pathetic?

[solidgoldbrass]

Because, statistically, if you have a vagina, you are far more at risk of being murdered if you stay at home If your home has a man in it. Yet time and time again there's this 'Waa, waa, I need an armed escort or a male owner to protect me if I'm ever going to set a foot out of doors after dark. It's so unreasonable to expect me to use public transport or walk anywhere...'

YABU I am fully capable of performing my own risk assessments and if I conclude that I am safer in a taxi than on a bus, then I expect that descision to be respected.
Should I decide that it's ok to walk home, I also expect not to be critised for that either.
And you know why? Cos I'm a grown woman and totally able to make that call.
No two people are in the same situation; personally, geographically or whatever.
How dare you say women are pathetic for deciding what is best for themselves?
But you probably just read all the above as 'waa waa'.

When I was in my teens and twenties I don't think I knew a single man who hadn't been physically assaulted walking at night either alone or in a group with other boys/men.

That coloured my perception of risk and I've never felt particularly frightened (while taking obvious precautions that I'd expect anyone male or female to take when walking at night alone) out at night by myself. However, I do get slightly worried if dh is coming home alone late at night. Mind you, his serious assault happened in the early evening in a busy street.

If my personal experience had been different then I've no doubt I would act/feel differently.

Of course we should all make our own informed decisions and there are times/areas that the bravest person would probably rather avoid. But the problem is the way this all gets gendered - as many people have said, men are at greater risk statistically but the focus is all on women. And on telling women what to do.

I've always been annoyed by men on dates who say 'text me when you're home so I know you got back safely'. So patronising. I tend to reply, 'No, I won't, but if I get raped or murdered you'll probably read about it in the papers.'

no, as she is emphatically not like that

No, I don't think SGB worded it like that to get as many rape and assault stories as she could. The op is totally in keeping with her usual posting style.

YABU. I'm scared, sorry about that.

blimey. I meant to respond to this last night. I think it's a pathetic situation where women feel they have to stay in rather than go out but there are swathes of society who prefer it that way. who prefer women to thinkl they are responsible for other people attacking them.

in an ideal world I would be able to walk naked through a dark forest and not be blamed if someone attacked me.

all those who think SGB is trying to get rape info - really? Do you not know her at all! shocking!

My sexual assaults happened on a crowded overnight coach, on a packed sports terracing (both very minor but distressing at the time), and in my own bedroom.

My best friend was raped by the man who escorted her home, and another friend was seriously assaulted in a taxi.

I guess I can see what SGB is saying (without the "pathetic" bit which doesn't take into account people's personal experience which will obviously hugely affect their future risk perceptions and fears) - the "world" tells us that if we do this that and the other (go out alone, at night) we won't be safe (and by implication it's our own fault if we do this and are assaulted). It doesn't necessarily reflect actual risk.

Agree with Cory

"I think there are two separate issues here:

a) what does a sensible risk assessment actually tell us as individuals?

b) who gets to decide what risks an adult woman should take? herself? her husband? her friends? or, for that matter, SolidGoldBrass off the internet?"

a) I've also often walked alone, late at night, in an area where it would not have been safe for a man to do the same. I had made a sensible risk assessment, but obviously you can never eliminate risk. I now go running late at night, in a quiet area, and I don't feel worried, again, a risk assessment has been made. However, there are plenty of places where dh would be safer than me.

b) It is categorically up to every adult to make their own decisions, choosing which risks to take. However, you can't avoid risk, and the victim-blaming when someone is attacked is disgusting.

When men are attacked I've never, ever heard anyone question their decision to walk home, when women are attacked, there usually seems to be some arsehole claiming that she shouldn't have been out.

YANBU

Exactly. When dh was attacked it affected him very badly and took a while for him to be able to go out, to walk past groups of young men without feeling fear etc.

He felt ashamed because the damage to his face (luckily temporary) made people look at him differently - like he was a thug who got into fights, ironically, so there was some stigma there but it was short lived.

If he'd been female I think the stigma would have lasted longer, he'd have felt that people were blaming him for the attack, he'd have wasted a lot of time thinking about how he could have prevented it. As a man, it was relatively easy for him to process that it had been random, not preventable and totally the fault of the perpetrators.

Im afraid of walking home in the dark, but Im not sure if its because of my vagina.
I think its probably more to do with the daily mail and all the horror movies I watched as a teenager.

Oh yeah and experience of dickheads approaching me when alone and trying to touch me up. YABU, esp. to call women pathetic.

totally depends on where you live.

I use public transport alone at night - in London it's always busy and pretty safe.

However i don't walk the 15 minutes from the tube to our house. It's a stretch of road that i've been mugged on and that my neighbour has been mugged on. Why the hell would i risk it again - just to stand shoulder to shoulder with the sisterhood? No ta.

Well I live in quite a rough area. I work in a pub in the evenings and its a half hour walk. I tried walking home a few times but was threatened and cat called at on several occasions. I don't feel unsafe because society tells me that, its the drug dealers, addicts and criminals who all happen to live up the road who make me feel that way

"When men are attacked I've never, ever heard anyone question their decision to walk home, when women are attacked, there usually seems to be some arsehole claiming that she shouldn't have been out."

Yes. Exactly.

I think this:

When men are attacked I've never, ever heard anyone question their decision to walk home, when women are attacked, there usually seems to be some arsehole claiming that she shouldn't have been out.

and this:

If he'd been female I think the stigma would have lasted longer, he'd have felt that people were blaming him for the attack, he'd have wasted a lot of time thinking about how he could have prevented it. As a man, it was relatively easy for him to process that it had been random, not preventable and totally the fault of the perpetrators.

are spot on.

If this is a post about being sick of being told what to do and what her husband/partner should 'let' her do, yes I can see the frustration.

But coming on the internet to call other people pathetic is just as bad. It's telling them what to do, telling them that they should do as she does and be happy about it because anything else is pathetic. She's doing the exact thing she is complaining about.

You have to wonder at the motivation of one of MN's most gobby so called feminists starting a thread absoltutely guaranteed to make a whole lot of women feel bad about themselves and their choices. OP you need to sober up and fuck right off and let everyone else do whatever makes them feel safe and comfortable. It's none of your freaking business.

While I agree with the many posters saying that the OP is being aggressive and unreasonable in her language, I do have to wonder in the event of an attack how many of these posters would put a significant proportion of the blame on the female victim, when they wouldn't do the same to a man - IME, it's often the women who are scared to go out by themselves alone who try to justify their stance by doing this.

I wouldn't blame anyone for being attacked, only the attacker. I don't care what they were wearing etc, the blame for an attack lies with the attacker only.

But equally, I don't blame anyone for doing something that makes them feel safer or think they are pathetic for feeling vulnerable in the first place.

Very good post there NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes

Great NN too!

What I never understand on these types of thread is what is wrong with taking steps to take yourself out of vulnerable positions. It does not mean that it is a woman's fault if she does get attacked whilst walking through a dark alley late at night, of course not, but the fact is, if she had not been walking at that time she would not had been attacked.

One poster earlier seemed to reconcile herself with walking alone at night, because she knew that if she did get raped or murdered it wouldnt be her fault. Well obviously, but surely it would be better not to get attacked in the first place wouldnt it?

Although yes for some women, walking down a dark alley at night is probably a hell of a lot safer than being at home