In thinking that if you won't go out alone at night because you've got a vagina, you are actually a bit pathetic?

[solidgoldbrass]

Because, statistically, if you have a vagina, you are far more at risk of being murdered if you stay at home If your home has a man in it. Yet time and time again there's this 'Waa, waa, I need an armed escort or a male owner to protect me if I'm ever going to set a foot out of doors after dark. It's so unreasonable to expect me to use public transport or walk anywhere...'

samstown, the point is that in an equivalent situation with a man it is never mentioned that he would not had been attacked if he had not been walking at that time alone. It is taken for granted that men are "allowed" (or "should be able") to walk by themselves without consequences.

Being out alone, makes anyone, male or female, more vulnerable to attack. This applies to humans and animals.

It is also using common sense to take whatever preventative measures you can to ensure your own safety.

In reply to this post...

I've always been annoyed by men on dates who say 'text me when you're home so I know you got back safely'. So patronising. I tend to reply, 'No, I won't, but if I get raped or murdered you'll probably read about it in the papers.'

Patronising? Patronising that someone is concerned for your welfare?

Have people really never heard of the 1% problem?

These are things that are very unlikely to happen -- but if they do happen, the impact will be so severe, that people are willing to spend a lot of money and effort to prevent them.

So the government for example will spend a gazillion dollars making sure terrorists don't detonate a nuke in Piccadilly Circus, despite it being incredibly unlikely, because the impact would be so horrible.

Maybe some women are overreacting in not wanting to walk alone at night, but that's only because the potential risk even if unlikely is so awful. I have been raped and nearly murdered and no fucking way am I going through all that again.

That doesn't mean I don't run around dodgy neighbourhoods at night -- actually I've done that far more than was wise, countless times over the years. But I have my limits as far as risk-taking, as do we all, and it's pretty stupid to judge other women for how much risk they want to take.

A woman may well be more at risk. I love being out and about on my own though. To say I shouldn't because the risks are greater is silly.

Saying that, because I know I am probably more at risk than someone not of my gender, I do take more precautions. I always take a coat (!) I always have my phone, if its night I don't put myself in riskyt situations, etc etc.,

There is a balance to be struck.

Saying that the advice I give to my boys about personal safety will be the same as the advice I'd give to a girl in general. Stay as safe as possible, but don't let fear rule your life. In that sense I agree with the OP.

nurter I cannot believe your comment, it is nothing to do with being feeble fgs, and all about taking personal responsibility for your safety. It is up to the individual to assess the risks for them and to take necessary precautions, might to be get a cab, walk in a group, or to take a more residential path instead of a deserted one! It is none of your business what I do, and nothing to do with feminism.

samandi yes ok, I agree its not very fair. However, I will not start running around dimly lit alleys at night just to prove some kind of point. And even if I did, I certainly would not be judging anyone else for not doing so.

nice lets call other women names and not bother looking at the reasons why they may feel like this

many women have been smothered by their family, made to believe that they will not cope alone and need family (males members usually) to escort them everywhere

i will not walk home alone at night (i get a train then a taxi i do not rely on anyone else i have no one to rely on) after my friend was attacked walking home early (from night bus stop 2 minutes from her house) in the morning (it was light). she was shown very little sympathy despite having a bottle smashed over her head and being scarred for life and why he attacked her is unknown it was not a robbery or attempted sexual assault

Why the hell should I put myself in a vulnerable position because others think I should and that I am going against feminism . There are nasty characters out there who do want to harm people, I would rather be safe in a cab, or walking with a friend (male/female), than be in a rape suite being examined and having all the physical and emotional trauma to deal with.

The "Male owner" remark didn't slip under the radar when the OP chose the words to use about what she sees as weak women.
Women are free to choose how they deal with going out or indeed staying in and some women have had shocking experiences which don't need to be judged and mocked.
I see she hasn't commented further after her ridiculously hurtful OP.

Oh yes where is the op? . Post and run I see.

Its up to each person to do as they see fit to ensure their safety, without judgment or ridicule.

I have had four bad experiences walking home at night on my own. The first was when I was 13 and a guy pushed me up against a wall and felt me up, luckily I shouted out and a woman came over and he ran off. The second was when I was mugged by a gang of girls at 14. Mugged at knifepoint at 16 and mugged again when I was 17. For me the biggest risk factor was being a teenager and I wouldn't feel comfortable with a teenage son or daughter walking around London at night on their own. I feel pretty safe where I live in outer London now and live 2 minutes from the train station so that's fine. If I'm travelling in areas of south London such as Clapham and Brixton late at night and not on a main road I will always get a cab. I'm rather offended by the suggestion that this makes me pathetic.

samstown - it's nothing to do with running around dimly lit alleys to make a point. How frequent are "dimly lit alleys" anyway? It's to do with not demonising women for going about their day to day lives, when we don't do the same to men.

The fact is that anyone be it man or woman who decides to make precautions for their own safety isn't being weak or naive or silly.
They are doing what's best for them given the experiences they've had or the fears they have even if those fears are judged by some to be irrational.

Yes you do what you normally do but exercise a bit more precaution at night, because the risks something happening at night I believe are greater.

YABVVU- you should just be grateful you've not had any nasty experiences. I used to walk everywhere alone afterdark. Then I got followed home by a man who tired to force his way into my flat in the middle of a large city. So I stopped walking around there but I still felt safe in my small town until a man tried to assault me on the way home one night. Both my flatmates had similar experiences. Are we all pathetic? Really?

Why on earth does it concern you if women choose not to go out alone after dark?
Crass and inflammatory OP! Thread about a thread perchance?

Who are you to judge

I often walk home from the pub alone. Anytime between midnight and 2am. I also happen to have to walk up a dimly lit alley and through a large unlit carpark. Once I reach the dimly lit alley, I remove my shoes. So that way if any sick fucker attempts to follow or touch me they will receive a 5 inch stiletto heel to the head.

I've never needed to do that though. But I always do it as a precaution. My house is only a 10 minute walk from my local pub so it's pointless getting a taxi. I don't mind, I've been doing it for years but I admit, carrying my shoes makes me feel less nervous.

Seriously?! All of you arguing YANBU? You would be quite happy for your DDs or DM to walk home in the dark, regardless of neighbourhood or level of isolation? Would you just wave your arm and say "I'm not concerned, statistically blah blah..."? What if she told you she was nervous and asked you to collect her or call a taxi for her? Would you trot out the gems that we've heard on this thread in response and pack her out the door? Or would you just call her pathetic, tell her she's doing her bit for sisterhood and then give her a good hard shove to send her on her way?

Geez.

Regarding the texts saying 'let me know you're home safe' - I don't find that patronising, I send a text to my friends when I'm home, to see if they've arrived safely too. Whether they're make or female! Its not patronising. Maybe the issue is not that the man texts the woman, but that the woman rarely texts a man to make sure he's got home safe?

Women are bad for stereotyping assumptions. Anyone and everyone is 'at certain risk' in certain situations, and though statisically women are at greater risk from sexual attack, a man walking down a dark alley is not 'safe', random violent attacks on men aren't that rare either.

If we all looked out for each other, if we took gender out of it and as a woman started texting our male friends too, if it became habit, I think that the stubborn contrary and risky behaviour of those women who think "why shouldn't I walk home alone" may reduce? I do know women who flat refuse to 'pander' to common sense. I don't get that.

What a crazy thing to say. I do go out alone but I am more likely (albeit unlikely) to be killed by a stranger than I am by dh. On an individual level statistics don't mean anything.

Have people really never heard of the 1% problem?

I agree with what you said - some guy wrote a book on this calling them "Black Swans" iirc

Oddly I have found quite a few people on MN arguing that because any one preventative measure is not 100% reliable or effective, there is no point in taking any.

Really the only pathetic one is the op!

Seems a tad harsh, solid. I don't go out alone at night and own my very own vagina. I also own two really shit eyes, and my ability to percieve depth is pretty much fucked at night. So crossing roads etc can be a tad exhilirating. I have learned to fear the dark because I generally walk in to stuff/fall down stairs/fall over a lot. I don't find self preservation pathetic.