In thinking that if you won't go out alone at night because you've got a vagina, you are actually a bit pathetic?

[solidgoldbrass]

Because, statistically, if you have a vagina, you are far more at risk of being murdered if you stay at home If your home has a man in it. Yet time and time again there's this 'Waa, waa, I need an armed escort or a male owner to protect me if I'm ever going to set a foot out of doors after dark. It's so unreasonable to expect me to use public transport or walk anywhere...'

YABU. Statistics aren't evenly apportioned geographically. And I would expect a woman to be supportive of any other woman who feels she wants to take sensible precautions to protect herself rather than spouting stats with no wider context.

Suggest you save your scorn and ire for those people carrying out the crimes who make it necessary for some women to feel that they need to take precautions.

Oh no. Hang on. I forgot. It's easier to blame the woman isn't it.

I think the OP was a little aggressive but I tend to agree. I have walked and run anywhere and everywhere and never had a problem. I do wonder if fear is an inadvertent tool of the patriarchy. Keeping women scared and in their place. The risks are there, but it's up to us to assess them. Millions of women assess them as being worth taking, and encounter nothing that poses a threat. But it's up to the individual of course,

I'd say that depends totally on the circumstances both at home and outside.

As professor Housman pointed out in a different context, just because a heart attack (or whatever it is) is a far more statistically likely cause of death than a bullet wound, if you were investigating deaths on a battle field you wouldn't necessarily exclude bullet wounds as a likely cause of death merely because of statistical implausibility.

As Birds says, it is about making a risk assessment from individual circumstances.

I too used to live in a place where there were more dangers for males, so when I walked home just after midnight I used to decline male escort for passing through the city centre: this way I was able to pass unmolested for over 10 years, which was not the case for my male friends.

Up by my current work place otoh statistics show that the risks of sexual assaults on women are actually comparatively high. I take the risk because having a job is worth it, and I would resent anybody else telling me what to do, but I am aware of the risk and try to minimise it as best I can.

Where I live otoh chances are probably about 50:50 on gender, but the general risk is fairly low.

However, given that I have known my husband for 30 years and he has invariably shown himself to be non-violent, another risk assessment would suggest that the risks in my own home are virtually nil.

One difference between men and women, though, is that most people don't try to dictate to men how they should keep safe: in all my years in the male-risk place, I never knew anyone telling a young man he mustn't walk through the city centre or trying to make arrangements for a man, rather than letting him make his own decisions.

But the moment I moved into the 50:50 place, I had countless people telling me I mustn't be out after dark and that they were going to do X, Y and Z to keep me safe (not however dh, who happens to believe I can be trusted to make an adult decision). This, I agree with SGB, is annoying.

My goodness we are not saying that every woman has to stay at home and not go out, but look after yourself, be safe and don't take undue risk. It has nothing to do with patriarchy and male domination, and all to do with preventing harm and injury. I would rather pay for a taxi, than walk alone late at night on my own. Its up to me what I do and not some feminists wanting to prove a point.

I'm not denying that this is a subject of huge interest from a feminist point of view but having lived in some areas where it is utterly unarguable that if you go wandering the streets in the dark you are putting yourself at risk I don't have much time for that angle.

There is such a thing as opportunistic crime. I would have a real problem with any woman - or man for that matter - who had persuaded another woman to walk home in the dark against her better judgment on the basis of this argument.

I'm quite stunned at the way the OP is worded to be honest

Horribly mocking and quite cruel

As others have said, it depends on who you live with and what area you live in.

Some people 'vagina' or not, wont leave home alone after dark for very good reasons.

I agree that some women are more likely to be attacked at home - I am not because I am not in an abusive relationship.

I have however had a few female friends who have been sexually assauted when out alone and I had a frightening experience with a taxi driver when coming home alone.

No male friends have been sexually assaulted. Regardless of feminism and my right to be treated equally and go where I please, when I please unhindered, most men are stronger than me and some might want to harm me so I do not walk home alone at midnight.

When sex crimes are punished adequately and lengths are gone to to educate all children in equality and respect so they grow into respectful adults maybe I might feel a bit safer.

Because of past experience s I rarely take risks at night and make sure I am accompanied or in a cab etc. I do go out but am cautious. As are most of my friends. The op is dismissive and rude.

I think there are two separate issues here:

a) what does a sensible risk assessment actually tell us as individuals?

b) who gets to decide what risks an adult woman should take? herself? her husband? her friends? or, for that matter, SolidGoldBrass off the internet?

To me the answer to b) is clear: I make that assessment for myself, to the same degree that I would let my dh, or any male friend make their own risk assessment. And I leave any female adult friend to make her own assessment.

No, just experienced. Some of us have a very good reason to be nervous about going alone after dark.

Sneering at women who've been assaulted and raped is just typical of some feminist attitudes that, if we don't live up to their ideals, we've somehow let the side down.

Personally, I think that, by calling us pathetic, you let the side down far more.

As a man i think it is a really stupid thing to wander around at night alone. has nothing to do with what gender you are or how pathetic you may think it is.

It is called common sense. When you are alone and it is dark and there are less people about, then the likelihood of something bad happening increases. I try to avoid wandering around alone at night if i can help it.

I am not quite sure what you are trying to prove to yourself or others by trying to make sensible people feel pathetic for being cautious. It also has nothing to do with you being a woman.

I find it a bit pathetic and disrespectful to refer to men and women as being penis and vaginas, we are people you know. When I go out with my dh, I am not married to a penis but by a man, a person, not a sexual organ

Where has SGB gone?

Off looking for a bigger spoon?

As I said on the other thread, women have been massively conditioned to be very afraid of nameless, faceless attackers - when statistically, as a group, we're more likely to be hurt by someone known to us, even someone who loves us, than by a random. Far, far more likely

While this is a valid point is doesnt negate the fact that stranger attack is as much a reality for some women as domestic violence is for others.

Whatever overall statistics are, women are far more likely to base their decisions on personal experiences.

I do wonder sometimes about the logic that impells me to be more protective about my daughter after dark than my son. He's 15 and tall for his age but still smaller and weaker than most adults, so in theory he could be attacked and hurt just as easily as DD, but I worry more about her. What are the statistics for attacks on teenage girls as opposed to teenage boys?

Yes, I tend to agree with the OP, and feel that the more women there are prepared to walk late at night (whilst recognising that those who have been in a dangerous situation in the past will want to take extra care), the safer the streets become for everyone.

I thought this was going to be another thread about plastic vaginas, I was wondering if the OP of that thread had found her DH taking his for a walk and was asking for some more suggestions.

Well its our bodies we are responsible for ourselves and we should not be made to feel bad because we take precautions. Noway will I walk alone late at night, especially if the path I need to take is lonely and deserted, I will either get a cab or find somebody male/female to walk with. Its about taking responsibility for yourself, at the end of the day I am responsible for my own safety, nobody else, so what I do is nobodies business but mine.

So glad the OP hasn't got a fear of going out alone at night. At 16, a neighbour started following me everywhere, he threatened me with a knife and cause deep distress by shouting things at me. It resulted in me getting an interdict which still didn't stop him. He died in 2003 but I am still terrified he isn't dead and that he will track me down and start it all up again.

It's about risk assessment. I know the stats, I know that cars are dangerous, roads can be dangerous, I'm more likely to be attacked in my home etc etc. But I wasn't attacked at home, I was raped by 3 strangers, in the dark, while alone.

I now struggle to even walk to my car alone after dark. I don't believe I'm pathetic, nor do I believe any woman who feels nervous at night, regardless of whether she has had a bad experience, is pathetic either.

ormirian its actually statistically more likely your son will be attacked.

I understand the anger underlying the OP's post. I feel angry too that my daughter does not have the freedoms that my sons take for granted.

But what can I tell her, when everything I have read suggests that being raped ruins lives, and haunts the victim for the rest of her life in a way that being the victim of other violent crimes seems not to? My son has been punched in the face, and it seems to have had no effect on him.i can't say DD would feel the same after a sexual assault.

I think another issue with walking alone when/where streets are quiet is that if the worst were to happen, there would be less chance of someone else passing by to intervene.

I walk in the dark, but choose to avoid going through a large, unlit park and through an underpass. I have been called a wimp, by men and women, for doing this but it's my judgement to make. I wouldn't necessarily turn down the offer of a lift or company, but I don't feel it makes me any safer.

Yabvu and really rather nasty.