In thinking that if you won't go out alone at night because you've got a vagina, you are actually a bit pathetic?

[solidgoldbrass]

Because, statistically, if you have a vagina, you are far more at risk of being murdered if you stay at home If your home has a man in it. Yet time and time again there's this 'Waa, waa, I need an armed escort or a male owner to protect me if I'm ever going to set a foot out of doors after dark. It's so unreasonable to expect me to use public transport or walk anywhere...'

I agree - my sister (so wise!) pointed out that a lone male is probably more at risk at being jumped on for a fight by a random group of guys than a girl is.

Here in Toronto, there is a rule on the buses that, a female travelling alone after dark can be let off between stops so she doesn't have to walk as far on her own. I feel it should apply to blokes too.

Dandelions - I wouldn't particularly advise my teenage daughter OR son to walk home alone after clubbing in the wee small hours....depending on where the club was etc. though, I don't think it would necessarily be a massively unsafe option for them so I might..

I asked my DH to add my name to our email address and he generously and fairly did so. I feel the main thing is having an email address - it's a great freedom to have one at all and be able to keep in touch so easily. The fact that it's a shared one is surely a minor concern to any but the most robustly judgey of knicker !

I'll be advising DD and DS to avoid walking home in the dark on their own (I hope equally.) But I'm sure they will do sometimes. They both do karate too which may help them - at least in terms of confidence and assertiveness.
I will just advise them as far as I can on how I see the risks. Then they'll have to make their own assessment of the situation, like we all do.

Dandelions: Hypothetical as I have a DS and will not be having more DC, but if I had a DD I would advise her not to be afraid to do things she wants to do just because she's a girl. And if what you or anyone else wants to do is go clubbing, have a few drinks, leave at the time you want to leave regardless of what your friends are doing, then you shouldn't be scared to do so, or criticized for doing so, just because you are female. The idea that women can't or shouldn't go out alone at night because they are female is very harmful to women. It reinforces the idea that we are helpless and less than fully human, not to mention causing unnecessary additional stress to those women, and there are plenty of them, who have no car, not enough income for taxis everywhere and who either have no choice but to be out after dark due to their jobs, or refuse to give up on having a social life or pursuing simply because they don't have a male 'protector'.
Women are in more danger from men they know than from strangers. End of. Yet women are always being told to trust men they know and accept that men Know Better and are needed to Protect Us - one has to wonder whose interests this very pervasive myth is serving.

"women are always being told to trust men they know and accept that men Know Better and are needed to Protect Us"

you really think this is so of women in this country though? Where? who is saying it and which women are listening to it if it's being said? - Not me and no woman I know, that's for sure.

I make my own decisions about risk, I'm not told by a man.

Of course there's still massive inequality and sexism in our society and in prevalent attitudes.

I'm becoming more and more aware of this all the time ATM.

But all the more reason to respect each other as women and the sometimes different choices we all make

You know what sgb. When faced with a male attacker most women are pretty much helpless.

I did kickboxing and fencing. I was in the County cross country team and I swam and rode. I was a very fit, healthy 5'9 woman who had learned self defence.

It did nothing to protect me from my attacker. Nothing. Nothing to prevent a man taller and heavier than me from raping me. And anyone who thinks anything else is, quite frankly, breathtakingly stupid and naive. This thread upset me so much last night that I didn't sleep until 3am-ish. People with attitudes like yours make me so angry, you simply cannot see the damage you do by spouting this utter bollocks. There is nothing wrong with taking sensible precautions to protect yourself, it's not a bag of groceries we are talking about, it's a life.

Women are in more danger from men they know than from strangers. End of.

Best you say how many, or what percentage, of women otherwise this might sound like another of your ill advised badly thought out half witted sweeping generalisations. And. That. Would. Never. Do.

Sorry - just have to do this

That's all.

And there in lies the crux of the matter SGB hypothetically telling a daughter she will never have to take stupid risks.

Bloody he'll - I know he risks are small - but why not minimise them to the best of our abilities.

I wouldn't want ds walking out of a club alone in the wee small hours never mind dd.

Ha! Ok who just nc'd to say that?

Lovely holiday, lovely

You just hate men SGB... although I doubt you will admit it. You pour scorn onto any woman who is happy with a man, and are so quick to inform them that they could turn violent at any time. Not ALL men are like that. I am sorry you have had some very bad experiences in the past, as they will have undoubtedly created this attitude towards men, and towards women who are not quite so "feminist" as you in their opinions and behaviour.

I do feel sorry for you, even though I am sure you would not want my pity, but from your posts, your life seem far more restricted than my "pathetic" one, because of your distrust of almost half the population.

Not every preventative action a woman takes is simply because she is a woman, or because a man has told her she should do it. It is because the woman would rather be safer than sorry, and despite "statistics" most women are more at risk walking on their own at night, than they are in their own homes with their partner, so fewer woman are out on their own, thus keeping the statistics to a minimum. More women on the streets on their own = more potential victims for muggers and attackers.

Ok maybe it shouldn't have but It made me laugh.

Humour in what is a depressing thread

(Sarah have a lovely big hug)

I think it depends where you live really. I wouldn't feel comfortable walking about alone at night in my closest town but I got assaulted by a complete stranger in broad daylight in McDonalds there, and yes it was a man who did it

MN deleted my post but condones the mocking of sexual abuse attacks?

SGB in charge?

Eh? WTF have I done to you?

MFSH - I don't think sgb is in charge. Most people on here have argued with the tone of her post.

AF's name is funny, and she gives bloody good advice. I will always ask AF if I need advice. You can bloody well leave her out of it.

I agree Sarah.

And perhaps AF hasn't commented here because she doesn't happen to agree with SGB, who knows?