In thinking that if you won't go out alone at night because you've got a vagina, you are actually a bit pathetic?

[solidgoldbrass]

Because, statistically, if you have a vagina, you are far more at risk of being murdered if you stay at home If your home has a man in it. Yet time and time again there's this 'Waa, waa, I need an armed escort or a male owner to protect me if I'm ever going to set a foot out of doors after dark. It's so unreasonable to expect me to use public transport or walk anywhere...'

Oh that's ace Hully

Hully I agree but HOW can we as women collectively unite to make our streets safer? :)

The notion was suggesed upthread that we women should use cars less and walk, therefore the frequency of women alone at night might make streets safer and maybe less attacks.

I'm really not sure about that one..

Anyone got any ideas how to make streets safer for women?

Longer sentencing for offenders?

Introduce a lovely curfew for men until they learn not to attack people (men and women) Like a grown-up naughty step.

How to make streets safer.

Ban cars, so everyone has to walk, in conjunction with the removal of the presumption, that any accused is innocent before proven guilty, for anyone accused of a street attack.

There are downsides to my plan, of course...

Have Why We Musn't Attack People lessons at school.

Address the Alcohol Question

I was going to say "ban alcohol", but I don't think I dare suggest taht on MN myself!

Better lighting, better monitoring, perhaps better policing of the streets - better chance of a rape conviction happening (it's only 6% at the mo, isn't it? And that's only of reported rapes)

I don't think providing more pick'n'mix for the opportunist rapists to choose from is the ideal answer, I have to say.

My girls' school did have self-defence lessons for us in 5th year, I think it was (whatever that is now) - basic ju-jitsu with a slant towards fending off would-be male attackers. Perhaps that should be compulsory for all females in all schools?

Good idea for offenders, after release from prison, (if you agree prison is a good enough punishment), not ALL men, regardless .

alcohol/drugs is a huge factor in violence against women generally. So that would be tops for me.

Also, more police patrols (including on foot) and doing something about the appalling conviction rates for sexual assault, lengthening sentences, etc.

I think my ideas are sane.

If women are too scared to go out, it's not because other women attack them. So make the attackers (men) stay home. It's only fair. Then all the non-attacking men will get really angry with the inconvenience caused by the attacking men and perhaps join forces with women and actually try and stop them.

My post 10;43 was aimed at Hully .

(ponders if it is a bad thing that ds is folding small playmobil figures into my flab because I have babies In my belly)

Anyway

Hully - I think you are hitting at the structure of society - the village my mother is from (europe) everyone knows and cares about each other, here we barely know our neighbours.

We are closseted with our families.

The value of the extended family is diminished.

MJ it's not a bad thing, but please make sure that all Playmobil figures are accounted for when this activity is finished and they are back with their appropriate sets.

Thank you.

I have learnt so much from this thread and about the OP some of the posters on it.

Hully: "I think my ideas are sane."

I was referring to my own post about banning cars and abolishing part of the legal system as being insane, at the time.

well all right then

women are not at risk of being raped if they walk alone at night, they are at risk of being raped if there's a rapist waiting to rape them.
personally I think it's wrong that women stop doing things completely to eliminate a supposed risk

That ^^ is the what annoys me greatly. This attitude of "it is never the victims fault". There are ways to reduce the risk.

Yes, obviously if there is no rapist hanging around (or mugger -which is a far more likely risk of attack), then you will not be attacked, but equally if you do what you can to minimise the risks, then your chances of being attacked are lower. That is just common sense.

A victim is never to blame, but I doubt very much all a victim is going to think afterwards "well its not my fault"... they are also going to think "I wish I hadnt walked alone now, because if I hadnt been alone walking, it couldnt have happened".

One something like this is done, it cant be "undone". The horrific memory of it will always be there. Personally I prefer to do what I can to avoid it happening wherever this is a safer option, such as going home with a friend, even if it is walking as there is safety in numbers.

It is never the victim's fault. Never ever ever.

It is always the attacker's fault.

Those facts are unassailable, I think we all agree.

But if a woman perceives risk, and chooses to avoid it, then that is her decision and it should be respected.

I think, as well, squeaky, that no matter the circumstance, be it an attack, a car accident etc etc, we always look to see if we had a part in it, because human nature can't bear to feel so utterly without agency in their own life.

And while we get that organised, let's have a curfew.

squeakytoy How is a victim of a viuolent assualt or a violent swexual assault in any way to blame?

Women wearing burkhas are raped too, incase you are suggesting 'provocative dress' is a motive.

Peadophiles are also put on curfew, wonder if they regulary break it.

squeakytoy after reading your post for the second time, I think you mean victims are not free from 'self blame'?

If so, apologies :)

Hully, thank you. What you have said is the most thoughtful and sensible insights I have read on this thread.