In thinking that if you won't go out alone at night because you've got a vagina, you are actually a bit pathetic?

[solidgoldbrass]

Because, statistically, if you have a vagina, you are far more at risk of being murdered if you stay at home If your home has a man in it. Yet time and time again there's this 'Waa, waa, I need an armed escort or a male owner to protect me if I'm ever going to set a foot out of doors after dark. It's so unreasonable to expect me to use public transport or walk anywhere...'

Let's hope victims of attack/abuse in childhood/adulthood do get to a place where they feel OK about themselves. Therefore the concept of a victim never being to blame, doesn't annoy.

It's interesting, Goal. Do you think that victims feel better if they think they COULD have done something?

YANBU, I completely agree too - although also find it understandable if people who have suffered violence or been attacked don't want to. For anyone else I too think, get a grip, take sensible precautions sure but otherwise, live your life! Same with women that "can't drive on the motorway".

Feeling OK about themselves/past decisions with occasional doubts, maybe. What else is there? They cannot change the past.

Professional help hopefully might beable to help acheive this.

Of course i speak from my own perspective/personal experiences.

I think it's worse knowing you could have done something.

Much worse.

How sad for you that you just assume my husband is going to beat me and rape me. He isn't.

Btw you are clearly both big and clever

So women who might have a serious phobia or a mental illness or a reason they choose not disclose is immediately thought of by you as 'get a grip'?

You cannot possibly know their reasons..Who are you to judge, really without asking the person concerned? As we've already established that can be deemed as incredibly offensive befuzzled

So bloody what if some women (or other species!) feel that they 'cannot drive on the motorway'. That's their business, not yours, not anyone else's. Theirs alone. I do wish this criticising of what people do, don't do, want to do, don't want to do -whatever - I wish it would just stop.

Gosh befuzzled, you really need to get a grip on your empathy.

There are plenty of men who don't drive.

There are plenty of men who won't drive on th emotorway.

There are men who won't fly.

There are all sorts of everything.

Peace and love and understanding and a common striving is the way to go.

I know loads of people who can't or don't want to drive/swim/ride a bike whatever - all part of the human spectrum imo. I ONLY know a couple of women who can drive perfectly well but say they are scared of driving on the motorway and do not have some other stated reason such as age/eyesight/illness/disability/inexperience/previous crash/phobia for not doing so. They won't try. They won't take extra lessons. They have no stated phobias. Their choice, their right, might be reasons they are not sharing etc - but I do, to myself, think this it is a bit pathetic. As is my right. Particularly as they say "oh I let my husband take care of that side of things", and two of the women also have shared email addresses with their husbands (another pet hate of mine) - because "he takes care of all that complicated computer stuff". It has nothing to do with empathy. I am empathetic to their predicament. I just think it is a bit pathetic.

But they might say, Why keep a dog and bark yourself?

I'm perfectly capable of climbing up a ladder and cleaning my own windows. I don't though.

Not because I'm pathetic, I'm just exercising my right not to.

I, for one have driven around Paris. Anywhere in the UK including Ireland and am hiring a car in Spain. When i was younger and women would state their disinterest in not driving on 'faster roads' I might have sneered but since then I've grown up a bit and realise we cannot ever possibly know reasons why, even if we are tiold we cannot be sure it is the real reason, doesn't make a anybody pathetic, just prefer not to tell.

Is it also possible befuzzled that just because they happen to be women they don't have to pretend to enjoy emailing and fucking around on the computer to fulfill a feminist agenda? Isn't it also possible that while their husband might take care of driving or emailing that they in turn take care of things or their husbands that they choose not to do/can't do?

I ask Dh regularly for help with anything requiring math. Maybe you think I'm pathetic but after 14 years of "not getting it" in school and being devastated that the extra tuition and studying didn't work i choose not to let my life be ruled by it.

Dh can't cook. Not won't cook can't cook. I feed him. We are a team, that may play to a few stereotypical gender rules. But we're happy.

addition to 12;06pm post * people often do not know the real reasons why, themselves so makes it impossible to say.

I totally agree with Hully.

But I'm still really f*cked off that SGB is claiming her stance on this for the 'feminist team'. But, y'know, whatever.

Sorry if similar has been said, I haven't read it all yet. For me it depends entirely on where you live. Where I used to live in London, I would feel incredibly uncomfortable about going out alone at night. A lot of rapes, murders and muggings happened in my area, frequently and regularly, so I think that's bloody good sense to be honest. When my husband walked to the shops at night he got a gun stuck in his face on more than one occasion. Where I live now I wouldn't think twice about it.

Empathy denotes that you've shared the same experiences befuzzled

We all have to assess risks and make decisions we feel comfortable with all the time. That's life !

But it is annoying when the media/ society in general doesn't present those risks accurately.

I try not to let worries stopping me doing things I want to do. But, as a Mum, I'm often at home anyway these days.

I gather it is more dangerous on the streets for young men though.

I have shared the same experience - I have been a terrified Learner and New driver. And I don''t think empathy does necessarily require shared experience - are you saying I can't feel protective and sympathetic for a child being bullied at school because I personally wasn't bullied at school. Or that I can't feel sympathy and outrage on behalf of people who have been attacked because I never have? Tosh.

You win befuzzled

thanks , will back away from this thread now as I have stumbled across a pet hate which, tbh, is not really in the same context as most of this thread, Emapthy and sympathy to everyone on this thread.