In thinking that if you won't go out alone at night because you've got a vagina, you are actually a bit pathetic?

[solidgoldbrass]

Because, statistically, if you have a vagina, you are far more at risk of being murdered if you stay at home If your home has a man in it. Yet time and time again there's this 'Waa, waa, I need an armed escort or a male owner to protect me if I'm ever going to set a foot out of doors after dark. It's so unreasonable to expect me to use public transport or walk anywhere...'

Worms honestly just let her carry on making a tit of herself.

Bsil, but was she not speaking from a feminist viewpoint? that was the impression I got which was clarified in her 2nd post.

So thats quite probably why people are focussing on feminism.

Yup soup and amber, you're right

As an aside, there appears to be a 9.7% incidence of acute injuries while morris dancing. Is this more or less than the incidence of injury due to living with a male in your home?

It's both amazing and depressing how so many women are still so frightened of feminism, as well.

This is a stupid thread which has nothing to do with feminism.

Women are at danger from violent men full stop - both in the home and out and about.

Trying to claim that one situation is safer than the other is the mistake, and trying to blame women for fear about real male violence is anti-feminist and anti-woman.

Instead of blaming the victims SGB (women terrorised by male violence) start holding men who are violent towards women accountable for their actions.

Im not frightened of feminism, I just dont like anyone using it to insult other women, I think it kind of defeats the object really.

And? She was coming from a feminist perspective which many feminists would totally disagree with.

I would call it a victim-blaming perspective myself.

FWIW I totally disagree with almost everything she said (except the factual bits). But I can disagree with her, without traducing a whole political movement. Because I have no interest in slagging off feminism, while some people do.

So I can disagree with SGB from a feminist perspective. Others can disagree with her from a neutral perspective. And others disagree from an anti-feminist perspective.

Don't claim this in the name of feminism SGB. You'd be wrong.

Faints of shock.

Comes around.

Applaudes Thunderbolts.

I'm not frightened of feminism. why would I be?

I do find it amazing and depressing that some women like to belittle the choices of other women though, deeming them too dumb to make their own decisions.

What's unfeminist about pointing out that the curfew on women is unreasonable? And that women are told to fear what is not that high-risk (being outside, alone, at night) yet pursue what is high-risk (relationships with men)? Sure, make your own choices according to your own circumstances, but insisting that all women should impose a curfew on themselves or else it's their own fault when something bad happens, is entirely pathetic.

But you didn't say that it was pathetic to impose a curfew on women SGB.

You called the women themselves pathetic.

Come on, you are not thick - you know the difference.

Who's curfew are you on about SGB? I choose not to go out walking alone on a night as I dont like the dark, that's my business.
You choose to call people pathetic who think differently too you

Wind your neck in OP.

FFS SGB then tell men to stop being violent towards us.

I've been mugged, groped, flashed at, followed, harassed, threatened by men in the street. So have lots of women - and worse. It's a reality.

It's the men who do those things who are the problem, not the women who are made afraid by it.

NorthernLurker, Which bit is out line? Saying that the OP is rude and obnoxious? My opinion, I'm afraid.

I've said my bit on the issue. I think the OP is wrong and disingenuous for posting the thread. I'm not abusing the MN feminists either, nor anybody else. If you don't like my post, report it.

Hmm. I am a feminist, and I have taken my vagina out and about on its own after dark many times, and I think that we do, certainly, live in a culture that encourages women - including a lot of feminist women, btw, certainly lots of separatists - to perceive the world Out There as very, very dangerous.

On the other hand, I do find myself feeling scared - and/or feel I should take care - quite a bit after dark. And this is not merely because I have a vagina, but because my vaginally-associated hormones have constructed me along the lines of someone who is five foot nothing, and not really able to deal very well with being attacked on account of this. (Arguably, of course, my tactics should be have been to learn serious self-defence: but that's not much use against a knife.)

I would say that it's more probably dangerous to be out and about after dark for young men, in my area. Especially young black men.

Basil - you said: "Nobody has yet explained why this particular piece of boorishness is down to SGB's feminism, not her morris dancing, atheism, or enthusiastic rejection of heteronormative monogamy. Her being rude to people has to be because of her feminism alone, right?"

I don't think anyone posited that the boorishness was down to feminism.

It was argued that the boorishness is not very supportive of women, which is not what one might expect of a feminist (and I am one).

On the contrary, you have posited that anyone disagreeing with the boorishness must be anti-feminist.

SGB - you know me, and I have reacted in the past to your name-calling (mundane being the favourite), despite the fact I find your ideas illuminating and interesting.

I think people - male and female- who think you have to have a vagina to do housework are definitely pathetic, mind.

I think it's unfeminist to belittle other women's choices and call them pathetic.

Being a victim of violence is awful. I don't really care if it's more likely at home or outside, I will try to prevent it either way.

And who says women don't structure their lives around trying to prevent violence in the home? I do that by only living with men who are not going to beat or murder me, and by locking the doors etc. so that people don't break in and kill me.

I think we should be trying to fight violence against women everywhere and not mocking women who fear one form more than another. Some women have perfectly good reasons for fearing violence on the street more and without knowing their circumstances how can you judge them?