In thinking that if you won't go out alone at night because you've got a vagina, you are actually a bit pathetic?

[solidgoldbrass]

Because, statistically, if you have a vagina, you are far more at risk of being murdered if you stay at home If your home has a man in it. Yet time and time again there's this 'Waa, waa, I need an armed escort or a male owner to protect me if I'm ever going to set a foot out of doors after dark. It's so unreasonable to expect me to use public transport or walk anywhere...'

In Your dreams basil - 90% of my posts on this board are about step parenting, won't be doing that anymore, i usually avoid the feminism section like the plague other than a lovely interesting conversation about Christianity and feminism. Even bought a book.

5% of my posts are probably childbirth and maybe 4% about breast feeding.

Leaving about 1% for feminism and every other topic.

Corrected for typos

Thanks MJ I'll update my spreadsheet.

Well it may be helpful to you to update it - you could check it for accuracy before posting garbage.

Morris - the flip side of that argument is that everybody who is attacked in the home must have been absolutely sure it WAS going to happen to them. If everybody who isn't attacked knew that fact in advance - then what the heck was going on with the others? The answer is you DO NOT KNOW. Nor do I. Nor does my dh or my children. We assume we know but we cannot know. The most dangerous place for women is in the home. Past experience tells us that. Overall that applies to all of us. Clearly it cannot apply to every individual. It's like the stats of say down syndrome after the triple test. You may get 1 in 100 and that gives you 99 chances of having a child without the syndrome but somebody has to be the 1. Violence in the home happens. Violence on the street happens but not as much. You structure your life around fear of the latter whilst refusing to acknowledge the former then you are missing something.

well since you ask worms, I'm amusing myself with the unlovely spectacle of a bunch of usual suspects who are always desperate to jump on any opportunity they can to self-importantly proclaim how awful feminists are, doing so on this thread. I think it's pathetic.

OK?

"You cannot take group-level statistics and turn that into an individual statistical likelihood. Not every woman has the same probability of experiencing violence in her own home. That's not denial, that's math."

Agree 100%.

You are barking up the wrong tree then, Basil.

Well forget the statistics, I am at far greater risk outside of my home than in it. Last week I was going to walk home at about midnight because I have been reading the feminists threads and could see their point but my friend persuaded me to get a cab. I am glad I did because at the time I would have been walking home in the exact place I would gave walked a women was attacked and left in a coma. Who knows if that would have been me but with 2 children at home I am glad I didn't risk it.

I actually don't care if that makes me pathetic in SGB's eyes.

I am a feminist. I am also capable of risk assessment. I am confident I am not going to be assaulted by my partner.

There is a small possibility I could be assaulted while out alone at night. This has never happened to me but the potential impact of it is significant enough to affect my behaviour. There is a moderate possibility I would be insulted, pestered or followed. All these things have happened to me and I prefer them not to, so again that affects my behaviour. Consequently, I make a judgement depending on where I am and the time of night. I'd be happy round here to walk into town along the busy roads at 8pm. I wouldn't walk up the towpath after dark, and late at night when there's fewer people around I wouldn't walk.

I prefer DH to follow a similar pattern as he's experienced equally unpleasant behaviour and is more likely to get stabbed. I trust him to make his own judgement though.

It's misguided and certainly NOT feminist to ridicule other people for their feelings about being alone in the dark.

I don't think so worms.

But I won't tell you to fuck off. I won't report your post either, because I don't care.

Are there any members of the police force on this thread? I'd be interested on their take on this.

And geez if you weren't scared of men before reading this thread...

Lyingwitch - I think your post is out of line. Argue with the issue not come on this thread to abuse the OP.

Ah take no notice worms - the ultimate anti feminist insult has been thrown and we are all suppose to bow down in fear.

I do find that insult amusing - given where I turned to and accessed real
Life help today.

But I take that as the difference between a genuinely feminist group and a bunch of keyboard warriors (such as basil et al as opposed to SGM, NL etc who genuinely mean well).

Latsi - I too would be interested in the view of the police but I wouldn't hold your breath - last year my local police force had the brilliant idea of campaigning against attacks against women made by men who met them in pubs and clubs. Did they work to raise male awareness of inappropriate and violent behaviour? Did they point out to blokes out on the town that raping the ladies you meet is a vile, abusive and criminal way to behave? No - they told women to be sure not to drink too much. The inference was clearly that the responsibility for violence against women rests on the behaviour of the victim. That's pretty fucked up imo.

I thought you were off to throw plates MJ?

Have you finished?

You've been called anti-feminist because you used this thread to insult feminism.

You didn't use it to insult morris dancing or atheism, both of which SGB is equally well known for.

has anyone been called antifeminist?

I think Basil just answered you :)

Basil why smash plates - Watching you make your usual fool of yourself is much more entertaining - and free.

That's the bit I dont really get, (forgive me but I'm not terribly well read or good a debating). I know I do agree with many feminist views but if I disagree with a feminist who has insulted a whole bunch of women, why should that make me anti-feminist? I certainly don't think I am at all.

Well MJ has been now.

But actually when I posted that, I was thinking more of someone else who knows exactly who she is.

I certainly think MJ used this thread to grind a big axe though.

Worms, that wouldn't make you an anti feminist.

Saying things like: "look SGB's post is boorish and horrid, therefore that means feminism is a load of shit", does.

Can you see the difference? If you can, we've got a starting point for discussion. If you can't, we haven't.

Nobody has yet explained why this particular piece of boorishness is down to SGB's feminism, not her morris dancing, atheism, or enthusiastic rejection of heteronormative monogamy. Her being rude to people has to be because of her feminism alone, right?

It wasn't aimed at you worms - it was aimed at me - there is a certain group of posters who believe I am a misogynist anti feminist.

Basil was very obviously using a multiple term to disguise her digs.

Interestingly I didn't know SGB was into Morris dancing (I did wonder why Basil suddenly started ranting about them) or an atheist.

"You didn't use it to insult morris dancing or atheism, both of which SGB is equally well known for."

Probably because the OPs two posts were clearly written from a feminist standpoint rather than a morris dancing one. Had it been talking about the dangers of dancing with bells and a big stick rather than complaining about the patriarchy and the whole culture of women staying indoors then it would have been more likely to be down to morris dancing beliefs and an insult against such dancers would perhaps have been appropriate. But it wasn't.