In thinking that if you won't go out alone at night because you've got a vagina, you are actually a bit pathetic?

[solidgoldbrass]

Because, statistically, if you have a vagina, you are far more at risk of being murdered if you stay at home If your home has a man in it. Yet time and time again there's this 'Waa, waa, I need an armed escort or a male owner to protect me if I'm ever going to set a foot out of doors after dark. It's so unreasonable to expect me to use public transport or walk anywhere...'

OriginalJamie if you believe that I ahve posted that anyone disagreeing with SGB's boorishness is anti feminist, then you have not been reading my posts properly.

Read them properly. I have stated quite clearly that I do not agree with SGB. So that would make me an anti feminist, if I were saying what you say I am saying.

But I'm not saying that. Which had you read my posts, you would know.

Some women are pathetic, though. As are some men. Just as some women are violent, or stupid, whatever, etc, etc.
And a lot of women have no choice but to be outside alone at night; they have evening jobs that don't pay enough for taxis, and they are car-free either by choice or due to low income.

Not unreasonable. It's infuriating when I'm gasped at for taking the last train home on my own. Men are more likely to be assaulted on the street than women.

Some women have blue eyes... what has that to with the price of eggs?

What about your OP, SGB?

Soooo.... women who choose to stay home, shouldn't, because some women have no choice?

I was one of those no-choice women for many years. I don't know what that has to do with anything.

Yes some women are pathetic.

But not wanting to go out alone at night doesn't make them so.

It is simply not a feminist position to dismiss women's fear of violence against them, as pathetic. It's a position which lines up to sneer at women while denying the reality of the cultural context in which they operate. We all know that we're unlikely to be attacked on the street. But we also know that if we are, we will be blamed for being on the street in the first place.

I don't believe that you don't know this SGB.

I'm still waiting to find out if I'm pathetic if I walk alone at night AND sometimes have DH walk me home. Because a lot of women I know do both, so what are we?

FWIW I've walked around war-torn Kabul at night. So my asking DH to walk me through New Cross , as stupid as it felt, was not done lightly.

SGB if you had said in your OP that society or the media were perpetuating the myth that women are more at risk of being attacked or killed by strangers than their own partners, when statistically the opposite applies. And if you had said that they were doing this in order to repress women by discouraging them from going out alone and failing to address the bigger issue of domestic violence you would have had a good starting point for discussion. Instead you insulted women and by addressing your post to women on an individual level the statistics become meaningless.

And tbh there's so much cultural and psychological shit around this issue that we could discuss, but how can you expect to get a sober discussion going with an OP like that? That's not inviting discussion is it, it's inviting a bunfight.

Sorry for typos.

SGB you are changing what you have said in your original op! In your op or rather the title you said that all women who choose not to go out after dark alone pathetic, then you changed it to those who impose their views that all women should not go out after dark pathetic, make up your mind! Yes it is entirely my choice and my business what I do, if I choose to walk with someone, be it male or female at night for added safety thats my decision. I do go out at night but take precautions to ensure my safety so what! Surely Feminism is about the freedom for women to make choices whatever they may be, if they want to be escorted by a male or a female so be it, its up to them to decide not you!

It depends where you live, in some places you would be an idiot to go out alone after dark unnessarily regardless of gender.

Most women would be unable to physicaly fend off a man which is why it is a bad idea. Your feminist wittering is not going to be any help to you when attacked by a strong man twice your size or worse, a group of men.

I can't imagine rape or soon to be murder victims thinking 'oh well, at least it's not my fault', as much of a consolation to be honest.

I'm very cautious about safety, even during the day, I'm always watching and that makes any kind of attack very unlikely (although not impossible). It's a habit I got into while living in a very rough area for a few years.

Never had anything bad happen and very unlikely to because I have no intention of putting myself in a vunerable position where a dangerous person/people will find an opportunity to take advantage.

As for being more likely to be attacked in your home by someone you know, what a stupid comment. I would never be stupid or desperate enough to set up home with anybody who would display violent or aggressive tendancies toward a woman. Most men are not violent to women and are no threat to them. It is the violent ones who are a threat. I know a few men who beat up every woman they are with and everyone knows who they are, it is the women moronic enough to choose them who are constantly exposed to violence and at a risk of someday not surviving a beating.

I'm not afraid of feminism - why would anyone be? What I am (a little bit) afraid of is the shouty bullying nasty shrieky condescending tone of the "I Am A Feminist And You Are All Fucking Stupid' brigade on here. Never ever come across anything like it and I grew up with and mix with a LOT of strong intelligent women.

Look to yourselves and you'll find out why you get such scorn poured upon you at any available opportunity. You DO NOT have the right to make other women feel bad about themselves.

Engaging in relationships with men is not a "high risk" activity.

To be perfectly frank I am a little nervous of walking alone at night through our small provinical town. I much prefer to get a taxi (from a firm I know really well).

I am a man and I know I can't fight off a gang of lads, a man with a knife, a man who jumps me from behind, a man out of his head on alcohol or drugs, or simply a man who is just bigger, stronger, faster than me.

Call me pathetic if you like but I feel better staying safe rather than trying to 'prove' I am 'not scared' to myself or my family.

The whole motive behind 'reclaim the streets' is perfectly well intentioned but if it is a choice between my wife (or me) getting a taxi home rather than walking and being in danger then I know which I prefer.

Its just common sense and women who criticise other women for wanting to stay safe are just going to far in my view.

FFS how did this turn into a bout of feminist bashing?

Don't blame feminists for SGB's stupid OP. Loads of posters have pointed out that calling women 'pathetic' for being afraid of male violence is not a feminist position.

I suppose it depends who you ask. I was fearless about walking everywhere until I was mugged. This happened just outside a friend's house. The men (all well-dressed so didn't look suspicious) were waiting in a car at the side of the road. This was in London in a decent area, although was at night.

Bobbledunk - are you for real? 'As for being more likely to be attacked in your home by someone you know, what a stupid comment. I would never be stupid or desperate enough to set up home with anybody who would display violent or aggressive tendancies toward a woman. Most men are not violent to women and are no threat to them. It is the violent ones who are a threat. I know a few men who beat up every woman they are with and everyone knows who they are, it is the women moronic enough to choose them who are constantly exposed to violence and at a risk of someday not surviving a beating.'
Do you realise you are saying there that victims of domestic violence are a) moronic and b) at fault? Do you mean to be so offensive?

Morebeta - 'women who criticise other women for wanting to stay safe' - that isn't what's going on here - or not for me at least. What I don't like is the assumtion that so many women seem to buy in to - that outside is dangerous and inside is safe. It's not that simple.

I think that OP is definatley abit of an odd one. Although i must say NearlyMrsCustardsHardHat Walking down a country lane is proberbly far safer than walking alone in a city. I would definatley feel safer (farmers tend to go to bed quite early!)

Yes that's a horribly victim-blaming post there Bubbledonks.

It's actually more offensive than the original OP I think.

Not that I'm awarding points or anything.

But FFS.

The experience of most women is that they live with a man that does not abuse them. In those circumstances, it is therefore not statistically true that you are more at risk in your home than walking alone at night on a dark street.

I won't walk alone at night. As a child I thought I was safe walking quiet country roads. I was wrong.

As an adult walking in daylight, you will be unfortunate if you manage to pry my pepper spray, etc. from me, as you will then be forced to learn about my extensive martial arts training. I am small but armed and full of rage. I am SO NOT pathetic. But I don't take any risks that I don't have to.