In thinking that if you won't go out alone at night because you've got a vagina, you are actually a bit pathetic?

[solidgoldbrass]

Because, statistically, if you have a vagina, you are far more at risk of being murdered if you stay at home If your home has a man in it. Yet time and time again there's this 'Waa, waa, I need an armed escort or a male owner to protect me if I'm ever going to set a foot out of doors after dark. It's so unreasonable to expect me to use public transport or walk anywhere...'

No, I'm not going to apologise. But it is the culture of 'Women, stay indoors and accept male ownership' that I object to more than individual choices. It is a big tool of the patriarchy, connected to the idea that women must accept the ownership of one man as the price of being protected from all the others

What bullshit, you said something very different in your first post and you know it!

You say some good things on here SGB but you make yourself look very silly when you say things like that and then try to gloss over it.

What you initially said last night was offensive and you should apologise for it.

Ah, so CheerfulYank was right, and this was just a chance to sneer at hetero-monogamous mundanes again.

OK, bored now.

This is giving me headache!

SGB - you've fucked up a bit here. Good for you that you haven't been traumatised by your experiences. I know the intention of your OP, but the wording is rubbish, frankly.

Berating women for being fearful of male violence is not a feminist position. So I do wish those who are carping on about the bloody feminazis for having that attitude would stop it.

Hastens to add I do not think all feminists are pig ignorant, just the ones who think it's ok to insult groups of other women.

Berating women for being fearful of male violence is not a feminist position. So I do wish those who are carping on about the bloody feminazis for having that attitude would stop it

You're right it isnt.

Can you tell the OP that please.

Can you tell the OP that please.

cheers

What a silly thread.

I was a student in Leeds during the Yorkshire Ripper years. I didn't go out after dark on my own, but that was being sensible, not pathetic.

I do walk round here after dark, but it is a village and parts of it aren't very well lit, so I tend to run and look behind me a lot. Again, I think that is being sensible not pathetic.

Women are in more danger in their own home than anywhere else. That is a regrettable and distressing truth. How do we know it's true? Because of the number of assaults perpetrated on women in the domestic setting.
Of course we all think we're safe in our homes though. We wouldn't be sitting mumsnetting if we thought otherwise BUT it's a fact that we are not as safe as we think we are. We are not as safe there as we should be and we are not as safe with our friends as we should be.

In contrast the number of violent assaults on women is falling. The 2002 Home Office survey recorded only 8% of rapes reported to the study as being carried out by strangers. 45% were by partners. Here are the current Home Office priorities. You will note that they all concern threats to women contained within the domestic setting, affecting women in their homes and ordinary lives.

Some women have cause to be afraid due to the things that have happened to them. It's horrible to read of that sort of crime, of course far, far worse to endure it. However that rare event should not define my behaviour, The behaviour of my sister, my colleagues, my daughters. If we all used the streets more at night it would be even safer than it is. When we justify each other's reticence, when we support one another in not going out because it's dark, we make our lives less safe AND we assist in obscuring where the true MAJOR danger lies. We do ourselves no favours attacking one another over this.

It's dark. It's NOT necessarily dangerous. Obviously there are some areas that events will lead you to avoid. Personally I walk down the middle of quiet streets if out alone, I like having more space around me, and I hold my keys in my hand as I get near my home. Other than that I would walk pretty much anywhere in my city at night. I might not enjoy parts of it but this debate is not about what is pleasant. It's about what is safe and generally speaking there is no safety based reason to stay in at night.

I am a feminist. I want to support women who have suffered assault but I frankly couldn't live with myself if I failed to appreciate the bigger structiral picture in our society. Women are rendered afraid of what isn't actually dangerous and that fear keeps them in the home - where abundant danger empirically lies. SGB is absolutely right on this issue. If you don't like reading that well that says more about where you're at than it does about her stance.

northernlurker

Just one question.

As a feminist are you agreeing with sgb's original description of pathetic.

And that's a yes or no questions.

Northern - I completely agree, but SGB is not right.

Northernlurker What 'abundant dangers' lie in your home?

Phrasing it better and quoting the AIBU being asked
"In thinking that if you won't go out alone at night because you've got a vagina, you are actually a bit pathetic?"

Is it your position as a feminist that this is an acceptable way to describe other women a bit pathetic"

I think it's statistically "our" own home. My home is very nice, and I have a lovely supportive husband, which is terrible rare, not to mention mundane

It's dark. It's NOT necessarily dangerous.

I feel happier at home with a man who IS ABSOLUTELY NOT going to rape or mug me.

Don't you see that it's cuntish to assume a woman is pathetic to know that she is safer at home than out on a dark street?

Bollocks.

i am a femenist too

how is calling other women pathetic for not doing as i do pathetic supporting them in anyway

I don't think lovely, supportive Husbands are terribly rare to be honest.

I think internet forums give us a bit of a skewed view on that because obviously a lot of people use them to rant.

I live in an equal partnership, my husband certainly doesn't own me.

or even a feminist

She hasn't said (on this thread) anything that made it worth her commenting in the first place though NorthernLurker.

Your post has said far more, in a much better way, than hers did. The value of what little information she gave was overshadowed by because of the way she sneered and call people pathetic for taking steps that make them feel safer, and then oddly came back and stated how many times she has been mugged, beaten up and followed while walking alone at night.

Now well done to her for carrying on living her life the way she feels suits her best after such attacks. But shame on her for trying to make other people feel pathetic for feeling concerned about their own safety and acting in the way they feel most safe, however unlikely it may be that their safety is at risk when out and about.

She'd have served her purpose much better if she had asked you to write the opening post on this thread.

MJ - I feel compassion for women too frightened to walk outside in the dark. Who wouldn't? I don't condemn them for it - which is I think the sense that 'pathetic' has been interpreted in. However neither am I going to support it as a viewpoint. I think any women who won't go outside at night needs some serious support in rethinking that stance.

Worraliberty - as far as I know I am personally safe in my home. The statistics tell me otherwise. That doesn't mean I personally am not safe. It means that the home in general is not as safe as the posters on this thread seem to suggest.

Worra - That was sort of tongue in cheek because I think that's SGB's view. Which is kind of a shame for her.