to wonder if all first time new mums find it hard at some point to some degree?

[Ohnoredundo]

Was having a discussion my cousin the other day (no children). Her best friend has recently had a baby (4 months ago) and I asked how she was finding it. "Great!" she said. "She thinks having a baby is easy and wants another soon." "Oh," replied slightly miffed and a bit jealous. I didn't know which way was up for the first few months of DC's life, but even so...to say it's easy? Really? I said that I thought all new mums find it challenging at some points, and promptly got my head bitten off: "Not everyone finds it as hard as you have...". Ooof. So is it just me? Or are there people who did find becoming a mum for the first time easy?

OP, what your cousin told you her best friend said is hearsay & counts for little in my book. Some find it hard, others easy - doesn't mean you are incompetent. I found it really tough at first, but after the months rolled on it got better and better. Don't expect it to all fall into place at once. All babies are different too, the ones who found it easy may have had easier babies.

CD, I'm a secondary teacher and one little baby after 30 stroppy teenagers is a joy! I especially like being able to do whatever I like with my day, unconstrained by policies, assessment criteria, or whichever fad is in vogue this week. And yes, going to the loo and having hot drinks is much easier at home with a baby than at school. I'm also very used to being prepared in advance (so it doesn't take me hours to leave the house - my bag is always ready) and tidying as I go along, so the place stays clean (if you've ever had to prepare a classroom in three minutes for the next lesson after year 8 have done a card sort activity, the mess one child can make is nothing ). So maybe it does depend on what your working life was like. Maternity leave is like a holiday compared with teaching.

I agree cailindana I am the same used to working with all different aged with children in one room from little babies to 4. Loads of behavioural problems, speech problems etc as its a disadvantaged area. Everyone always comments on how they would go crazy as there is so many children when a few babies/children cry at once its loud! Also your own kids get a bit jealous when they are there when they are toddlers so you have about 10 children trying to climb on you including your own.

Brian, I'm a secondary teacher too- I feel the opposite

Give me a class of stroppy teenagers over a newborn any day...

And I work with kids with ESBD...

Really? Teaching prepared you for motherhood? . Sorry, but that seems absolutely ridiculous to me. I worked for years as a paraprofessional with children with severe autism and challenging behaviour who had to have intensive 1:1 care at all times. It was far more intense than my current job in schools is, there were times that if you switched focus for a second you could be attacked or a child could injure themselves or abscond, but comparing that to being a mother is still like comparing apples and oranges.

I was never sleep-deprived in that job, and I had oodles of training and protocol to follow for the more serious stuff. But more than that, though I genuinely cared very deeply for those kids and still remember them with fondness, I did not love them as I love my own child and I did not feel responsibility for their wellbeing in anything like the same way. Being consistent behaviourally even with the most demanding of children with the most severe of complex needs was, in my experience, really quite easy with these children who were not my own. On the other hand, I have been scuppered by my two year old on more than one occasion and done things I know are not the best choice behaviourally and/or lost my cool because, apart from anything, there are times other things get in the way in a way they don't when your job is to care for someone. You don't get to switch it off in the same way, your child becomes a part of you, you know every little quirk of theirs and there just isn't the same type of objectivity. I just don't see how any job could prepare you for the experience other than maybe giving you the heads up on a few isolated bits of a massive endeavour. I know loads about child language development and toddler behaviour and some of it has been useful, definitely, but did it prepare me for having a baby? Not at all. I wonder if tending to 30 kids in a primary would be much preparation for a teenage strop either..

I'm not saying teaching automatically makes you a great parent, but there are skills I have learnt which have helped me so far. High tolerance for noise levels, making sure I'm prepared for the whole day in advance (the legacy of teaching in different classrooms and never being able to sort things out as I went along), and mostly, patience. It doesn't mean teaching is the same as parenthood, of course not! I'm sure lots of people learn skills from their jobs they use in other parts of their lives - why is this so hard to believe?

I think working with kids helps lots poersoally. I feel it made me very experieced going out around town with loads of children at once, tending to loads of babies and childrens needs all at once, high noise levels, constant activity, always thinking in a baby/child related way. I definitely think working with children en masse is a billion times harder than looking after your own.

UI have to say I feel just as responsible for the children at my work as I do my own, sometimes more. I know my own have a decent background and stablity the ones I work with live with herion addicts, alcoholics, have been abused etc. I have to say it plays on my mind a lot more than being with my own

I agree with Brian, I'm not saying either that teaching is the same as parenting. I'm saying that teaching can prepare you for the logistics of having a baby as you tend to be used to not controlling your own day and being subject to the whims of unreasonable little beings! I agree with you working that emotionally teaching and being a parent is very different although I did often care deeply about my pupils and worried horribly about them at times. In a lot of ways I find parenting easier and more satisfying than teaching in that I have control over all aspects of my DS's life and I can be sure of his safety and happiness. There is nothing more heartbreaking than teaching a child who is clearly struggling at home and you have to let them go every evening knowing what a shit time they're going to have.

I found my second easier, but in no way did I find sleep deprivation, stitches, and crying babies - and mine were good babies - easy.

I can also discipline my DS in any way I see fit without fear of an irate parent screaming at me for daring to look sideways at their little darling! I love the freedom I have with my own DS - I can teach him whatever I like, however I like. I love teaching but I hate the constraints it involves. Having my own son to teach and play with is really great from that point of view.

Actually, what I think teaching/working with children prepares you for most is the sense of being The Adult. That is, being used to the sense that the buck stops with you and you are in charge. When you're at home with the baby, there's nobody to bail you out, and that's the same as being in charge of a classroom. Maybe I got that terrifying feeling out of the way during my first years of teaching instead of my first weeks of parenting? Because it was terrifying, at first.

No offence, but I think you are doing a bit of self-beatification folks. Of course you can learn "skills" and experience is always helpful, but parenting is just so HUGE and involves so much more than any other professional role (ps I work so this is not some SAHM pop at people who work). Working with children en masse is a billion times harder than looking after your own? Well, perhaps on an organisational level, with typically develolping kids.. but it won't help much when you get a call from your 16 year old saying they've been picked up by the police, or when your two year old trips and knocks out all their front teeth, or dealing with the emotional feelings that arise when your child whacks you or their sibling or is finding a certain aspect of development difficult, or comes home sobbing into their pillow because they are being bullied.

Are teachers better parents? What about midwifes or health visitors? Surely they find aspects of babycare very easy. Nursery workers are probably fantastic with routine. I know I am good at communicating with toddlers and pitching my language at the right level which makes behaviour easy to manage. I can imagine that HR people find all sorts of ways to ensure that flexible working works for them. Doctors and nurses may be great in a medical crisis. A good cook may have less fussy eaters over the life span, perhaps, than those of us who can only serve up bland tasting muck. There may be office workers who had millions of siblings or babysat for oodles of cousins who have better practical skills with young children and infants than people who work with kids 24-7. It all seems a bit of a nonsense to say a job would prepare you to me!

Again I think it comes back to how people percieve things but I know its way harder for me. I think I just excited only a couple of months till I go off on maternity yay

You're contradicting yourself a bit - yes, all of those people would have skills from their jobs that would help them with babycare. Who's saying it's only teachers? It just happens to be teachers posting. I can't say if it's easier for a nursery nurse or midwife because I've never done those jobs. I'm sure in a practical sense they would have found the hands-on part easier than me as I had never changed a nappy before I had my own baby!

All of my collegues are trained in parenting techniques, Webster Stratton, Triple P etc but they have all had nightmare shopping trips, over Christmas(and probably spurred a few threads on here!). Dealing with your own is much different.

I always think it isn't the actual baby care that can be difficult for some (i have already said i found mine easy) but the change in relationships, being stuck to the house, if BF isn't going well etc. No job can prepare you for that, it is down to how you think about things, but throw in sleep deprivation and your rationalising skills go out of the window.

I'm not contradicting myself even slightly. I'm saying that different people may have isolated skills, splinter skills if you will, that may be helpful with some aspects of caring for children but in the end, the whole endeavour is about being human and in relationship with someone and that isn't really aided by any one professional role in a sustained or meaningful way across the lifespan. There is a line between being a person and a being in a job. For this reason, doctors and nurses are told not to self-medicate and therapists, in particular, are heavily warned against trying to "therap" their own family. Human first, worker second. It worries me that people would even hint they would feel as responsible for and/or worry about their professional charges as they would their own children. It shouldn't be the same and if it is, there is something wrong.

Also, it's not really coincidental that it's teachers posting, is it? This comes up on MN from time to time from people who work with children, in particular the idea that having taught a whole class of children/worked with large groups somehow makes being a parent a breeze. Honestly, does it really make it easier if your child is awake from 2-5 vomiting and you have to go to work next morning? I've seen this sort of thing here before and it just seems, well... a little bit self-satisfied and smug and as though there is potentially an inflation of the skills involved in teaching going on.

I think when I say I worry about children in my care its becaue often they dont come back I know some have been sexually abused, beaten etc on leaving after a session and then you never see them again or dont see them for a while, or they come in covered in bruises or not having eaten. I cant help that worrying me and I know thats not something that will happen with my own as they are with me.

I also think it depends on how you handle sleep. I was used to clubbing staying up all night going to work having whole packs of proplus, then coming home doing it again and having 2/3 hours sleep then back to work again on the weekends. I have not the foggiest idea how I did it but I dont ever want to feel that tired/sleep deprived again! You actually feel as if you are going slightly mental, it can make you hallucinate and everything. Its awful looking back but I used to do it for fun

Working, I never said teaching makes you a better parent, in fact I don't believe that at all. I said, for me I feel that teaching prepared me for the practical logistical aspects of looking after a baby. The worrying, the feeling of intimate connection to my son, the reality of being parent are all completely new and no job could ever prepare you for that. I'm not implying that other workers make poorer parents, that would be a ridiculous thing to say. I think in some ways being a teacher will be a problem for me later on as I am afraid I might be too strict and not as loving and easygoing as I would like to be.

As for worrying and caring about my pupils - I have definitely never felt the same love and care for a pupil as I have for my son. But, working with a child every day, seeing them grow, having little conversations with them, does make you love them in the way you love a good friend that you really want the best for. You worry about them, you fear for them when they're hurt or ill, they drive you up the wall in a way that a person you don't care about can't. I think that's perfectly normal and not wrong at all. I would worry about a teacher who can spend a whole year looking out for the welfare of a bunch of children, yet feel nothing for them.

totally agree caitlindana

And Cailin, I never said that you should feel nothing for your charges, as above I said I felt genuine heart-warm fondness for the kids I worked and work with. However, it always bothers me when people compare it to parenting. It's very different and if it isn't and professionals can't see that it is, that can be a major problem. I have seen colleagues be very judgemental of parents when the lines blur, when in reality they really don't know how they would cope in the same situation. On the flip side, I have seen a professional colleague, when faced with news of her own son's special needs, literally lose all knowledge of his condition when it came to him. She will tell you outright she cannot apply her professional knowledge to his condition, because she can't be objective and unemotional about it, and she finds herself doing all the things she has seen parents do over the years that she would once have advised against but she is helpless to stop herself.

To be honest, if people working with vulnerable kids find unable to switch off from it regularly and/or that those feelings intrude significantly into their home lives, they should be seeking an outlet e.g. for those of us in the NHS, it would be clinical supervision, I presume there is similar support in teaching?

I also wonder, as someone above said, if it's ever the logistics that makes babycare hard. I reckon it's generally the social and emotional factors, combined with personality, hormones, support levels etc that make the early days easier or harder.

I dont think it significantly impacts on your home life but you cant work with people like that and not think about it as it happens though you dont have outlets/support of any kind though in nursery you just get over it and get on with it and just have to think today is a new day.

I think how easy a parent finds parenting depends on a few key aspects:

• the baby's temperament/personality
• the baby's physical side (how easily they take to feeding, whether they are good sleepers, have colic/reflux etc, not to mention if there are any SN)
• the parents' personal situation (financially stress-free, stable relationship)
• what the parent's social life was like BC (clubbers, homebodies)
• the parent's temperament (easy-going or highly strung)
• the parent's readiness for parenthood
• the parent's work situation BC.

For me, motherhood has been easy, due in part to:

• a very easy happy sunny NT baby, who took to breastfeeding easily, sleeps beautifully, never had colic/reflux; we are comfortable financially - not loaded, but I don't have to worry about where the next meal will come from, I have a fabulous DH, who makes life easy and fun; I was used to far less sleep than I have now as I used to go clubbing on a school night, or out late with friends and have to get up for work the next day, now I get to lay in loads, and I was at the stage where I was ready to give up being a party animal, so I don't miss it in the least. DH and I are both laid-back, don't mind a bit of mess, don't concern ourselves with routine. We were both very ready to be parents, and for myself, my work situation prior to leaving to be a SAHM was so stressful, full of office politics, nonsense bureaucracy etc, that looking after one sweet snuggly baby really is very very easy.

And probably a bit of luck.

As a teacher, in purely legal terms, you are "in loco parentis" for all the children in your care during school hours. That literally means you are their stand-in parent at school. It is perfectly normal for difficult situations to play on your mind at home, and I agree that if it's really stressing you out you should get help. There is no automatic help available to teachers, they have to go to their GP like everyone else. All teachers I know worry and think about their children outside school hours, it's impossible not to. However, it's never been an issue for me, it has never impacted on my home life or my mental health as I'm able to let it go. Equally my doctor friends might cry about the death of a patient at home but then they let it go and face a new day. In fact one of my friends who is a nephrologist said it's the day that you don't feel like crying that you have to start wondering if you should be a doctor any more. I agree and think if as as teacher you can go home and never think about the child who has the alcoholic dad then you have take a hard look at yourself.

I agree that it's the social and emotional factors that are really tough when you have a baby. But I think that being on top of the logistics can really help as being able to go out with a baby and not get very stressed can make maternity leave a lot more interesting and fun.

I do think some people no matter what their background will find parenthood a huge shock and have great difficulty adjusting to it.