to not want disabled BIL to live with us

[sonotready]

I feel like a total shit and am well prepared to be flamed, prob. deserve it :(

BIL is disabled - birth accident left him brain damaged, with learning/mental issues rather than physical ones. He is a nice guy (mid 30s now), who doesn't know he's disabled iyswim.

DH grew up knowing he would always need to look after his brother (MIL a single mum), and over the years we have hd 4am mercy dashes to police stations (when BIL feels threatened he lashes out and he'd been cornered by another service user at a drop-in centre), had to cope with BIL's 'friends' selling all his things and dealing drugs out of his flat and all sorts. Eventually BIL was persuaded to move back in with MIL (because she 'needed help' not because he needed someone to keep an eye), and he rubs along okay looking after the pets and doing garden work. MIL works away. They live five hours from us.

When DH and I got together I was late teens and while I did know on some level that one day BIL's care would fall to us I didn't fully appreciate what it would mean. BIL 'seems fine' and I was very young and MIL was far from old or frail.

We've been over for the festive season and MIL has raised the possibility of BIL coming to stay with us for a while as she needs a break. DH feels strongly we must do this, and I sort of agree, but I will be the one looking out for him all the time as DH works and I'm a SAHM. MIL is making out that it will be free babysitting for the DCs but given how BIL reacts to unpredictable things happening that's just not going to happen until the DCs are a lot lot older - he's fine playing XBOX with them and they love that, but DH vividly remembers BIL setting fire to the grillpan accidentally and then panicking and disabling the smoke alarm so he didn't get in trouble and running out of the house leaving DH and MIL asleep upstairs... so I just couldn't leave him in charge of young children.

DH's already had a massive go at me for letting BIL use his laptop (apparently it was 'obvious' that he'd be downloading porn and other dodgy things), and my mobile (he said he wanted to play angry birds and has run up £££ of charges to sex lines - MIL said I was stupid to give it to him but nobody has ever told me he has form for that before!)

MIL is dropping hints that we should bring BIL home with us when we go back - I really really don't want to, not without a lot more preparation and a lot more understanding of what it is going to involve.

I've asked about official respite (total no go apparently for lots of reasons, also MIL doesn't want someone to 'look after' BIL she wants him to do a 'normal thing like visiting his brother, he's always asking why you don't have him to stay').

DH thinks IABU - what do you think?

I'm sorry but I think overall YABU. You knew when you met your DH he planned on taking on the responsibility of his brother care. Just because you didn't make an effort to make sure you knew the details of that until now is not your DH fault its yours.
YANBU to make a plan and have as much information about things as you can. Also to take things slowly and do things gradually. YABU to suggest your DH is doing this because he has been cajoled by his mother.

just a question here OP?

Eventually BIL was persuaded to move back in with MIL (because she 'needed help' not because he needed someone to keep an eye), and he rubs along okay looking after the pets and doing garden work. MIL works away.

What do you mean by she works away?

I'm shocked by your DH and MIL calling you stupid for not knowing what BIL was likely to do with the phone & computer! If that's their idea of preparation for becoming his carer, you'll need to be a lot more assertive over this. What other little foibles might they not have mentioned??

I do see that his mother's coped through denial, and your husband probably hasn't had occasion to question this. But it seems like that time has come. While I feel you took on a long-term obligation when you took DH, it shouldn't be plonked on you haphazardly. You should have relevant accommodations and support in place. If DH refuses to see that, you might be facing a battle but it's important - for BIL's well-being, as well as yours and your kids'.

Good to see you're coming up with a plan. I'd also recommend calling SS and appropriate charities (Scope? Mind?) for advice: make DH listen to them.

Good luck!

I like the previous posters suggestion that DH goes to look after him in his own home and MIL takes a break away.

You cannot be the primary carer for children and adult, the requirements are conflicting.

keepingup Did you miss the bit where the OP was a teenager when her and her DH got together and he appeared fairly 'normal'. Looking after his brother does not necessarily mean having his brother live with them. It was her DH's & Mil's responsibility to make sure she knew what she was 'taking on' actually and as they are both in denial, they clearly did not do that.

keepingupwiththejoneses DH is not taking on his brother's care. He is expecting his wife to take on his brother's care - there is an enormous difference. It's all very well to talk the big man, I will look after my brother etc - but then he shouldn't have taken on a wife and children. He can't expect others to carry out his self chosen responsibilities for him.

In your shoes I would not want this.

I would not want ANYONE to live with us. Let alone someone who needs such a difficult and unpredictable level of care. It is a huge responsibility to take on on top of your existing responsibilities.

I think that as the care would fall to YOU and not your DH, you are allowed to say it is not an option for you (just say you could not cope with the responsibility). Then MIL, DH and you can sit down with BIL and decide what the best option would be (sheltered accommodation?).

I think it is not fair, TBH, for your DH to decide that YOU should look after BIL.

You are not going to come out of this looking "the nice guy" though...you have my sympathy OP. It's going to be hard.

Nooooooooooooooo! OK, that is my response to the suggestion that a trust fund is set up for your BiL - my Godson L, is autistic and will be 12 this year. As you can imagine his care is constantly on his parent's minds as he will most definitely be an at risk adult and there will come a day when neither of them are around, although he does have an older brother who my friend does not want to burden with his brother. On legal advice they are leaving nothing to L due to the way in which Social Services will use the trust fund so I would strongly recommend that your family seek specialist advice when writing their wills and including your BiL.

You really do need a proper plan for when your BiL comes to stay, even if it starts with just a weekend stay. Do not allow yourself to do this through guilt, as it would be simply awful for all concerned.

You might also like to post on the Special Needs boards to get advice from the parents and relations on there.

ooooooo provincial lady said it very well!

I do think it would do your DH a power of good to go and spend a week there with his brother and mother. It doesn't sound like it would be very fair to your BIL to move him so far from home for a short period of time and frankly I would be worried about your children's safety from what you've written.

There's no doubt your MIL needs some respite but this seems like a much fairer option. Being brutal, waiting for her to die is not a realistic scenario - she could (and I hope does) live for many, many years yet.

So Prov, in agreeing to take on the role of primary Carer for his brother (way in the future), he was expected to never fall in love, marry or have children? That's a most strange way of looking at it.

I don't think YABU at all. In fact I think you should say a loud and clear NO to your DH and your MIL. At the moment.

If you start going down this route there will be no end to it and it's highly likely that there will be some crisis where external agency involvement will be required. The care will fall on you.

Your BIL will not become easier to care for the older he gets, it's usually the opposite. (I have a sister with SN).

You will not be failing your BIL. It's your DH and MIL that are failing him by not seeking out appropriate help with him. Your BIL should have a social worker and it is her responsiblity to sort out appropriate living arrangements and indeed respite. If your MIL has avoided contact with Agencies does that mean she hasn't had carers allowance etc for him?

That your BIL's immediate family are in denial about the extent of his difficulties is not your concern. If you give in now it will be expected again.

This situation may be what is just what's needed to have an appropraite care plan in place for your BIL. Is you MIL his legal guardian? Are you in England or Scotland? Might be something to look into. If she isn't his Legal Guardian then SS can do whatever they like whether your MIL likes it or not. Just something else to consider.

Someone up thread suggested to talk to Mencap. Please please do this as they will be able to talk you through options and things like Legal Guardianship. Another organisation is Enable.

This situation is not one where you can hope for the best. Worst case scenario needs to be planned for.

I hope you can sort it out somehow.

I am absolutely horrified but not surprised at the way you have been treated over the incidents with the computer and the mobile phone. He hasnt even moved in with you yet and you are already being disrespected and abused emotionally. Carers are not valued in society and the subliminal messages of societys attitude towards carers has already rung its bell loud and clear to your DH which has been reflected in the way he has already treated you! They deliberately omit to tell you the full truth about his needs and then blame you when something goes wrong? If it were me i would be one of the many marrieds seeking the advice of a solicitor on 3rd January. It is a divorce waiting to happen and that is at best. At worst it could involve something happening to one of your children and the heartbreak involved in that,i am willing to bet would be magnified tenfold by your DH blaming you for that as well.

I did this job with SS, promoting independence with people with LD. There is no forcing people into residential care if it would be inappropriate because it costs a fortune. A Social Worker will assess, with safety and the person's independence at the top of the priority list and see if services are available and appropriate. They PROMOTE independence not remove it. If he doesn't like day centres, fine. Lots of people with LDs don't. MIL needs to be told that she may not like SS but you aren't the alternative.

The problem with all this is you need to look into the long care situation now.

If anything happened to MIL which was unexpected and she ended up in hospital now for a long stay what would happen to BIL then?

It is too easy for your DH to think that he can sort all this out when your MIL dies but sadly it doesn't always work out that way. My FIL has just had a stroke. luckily very minor but we are unsure as to how badly his short term memories are affected and whether he can be left alone for any period of time.

I would suggest your DH spends a week at his mother's to help give her a break, not that you look after him in your house. I have a horrible feeling that the second he is in your house he will become your problem to deal with and you will be responsible for getting him placed in a suitable supported facility.

would you be comfortable spending day after day alone with someone who is disable and sexually obsessed? I know I wouldn't. Also, what would happen when/if in the future you decide to get a job outside the house. Would he be ok to stay alone all day, or is this cutting your chances of ever getting a job?

I would be looking for a job if I was OP.

Otherwise she will be landed with the guilt for not 'caring' for poor binlaw.

I would also not let an adult male with learning difficulties and a porn obsession alone with my DCs.

I'm sure he is 'harmless' but if he can't see that downloading porn on another's computer is not on - what other social norms does he not grasp.

He will likely live into his 80s 90s - 60 years as a full time carer is alot to take on.

Once DH has retired perhaps he can spend more time caring for his brother if that is how he feels but OP shouldn't take it on (ever imo).

Yanbu

Your own dc must come first and this is a recipe for disaster IMO

If he has no qualms about openly accessing porn, he is clearly getting sexual urges. It is quite possibly (and I do stress only possibly) a risk to the OP, and to any female children and their friends as they get older.

Carers are professionally trained to deal with adults who are in this capacity. OP isnt.

No No No. Please do not do this, for your sake, your children's sake, your marriage's sake. Your hubby wants to do the right thing for his mum and brother, but it isn't for his family, and you come first.

I too have done some (writing) work on supporting adults with LDs into independent (as in supported independent, not isolated!) living. I really think you need to get him in contact with his local Social Services and other organisations like Mencap and the Foundation for People with With Learning Disabilities (whereabouts are you? There is some great work going in Sheffield) about what happens to him later.

It is not remotely reasonable to expect you to become his full-time carer.

I dont think yabu. I have a cousin of 45 who is similar ( she was breech at birth got stuck and suffered brain damage from lack of oxygen) but she is very bad and in full time residential care. She is physically ok but has the mental development of a 12 year old (shes 45) i get on great with her and dh and i took her away for a weekend and it was exhausting she has no sense of danger inc talking and going off with strangers. I think my cousin is best in full time care its too much for my aunt ( shes 70) and others but that doesnt mean were bad people in fact i think we are doing whats best for her. I think the best thing is have a chat with social services and your dp.

Hi sorry just catching up.

As far as I know BIL is not 'in the system' at all. MIL has an awful shame thing going on and has never claimed anything for BIL. He has had help in the past, because he went to a residential school, but it is vitally important to MIL that BIL never ask questions or be aware he is different or why. She has terminated various things and avoided opportunities so BIL doesn't 'find out'.

Someone asked about MIL working away - she works in a city about 2 hours away so BIL is on his own for much of the day. MIL did have a live-in boyfriend who didn't work and was close to BIL but he left about 5 years ago. She has people who 'look in' on BIL but the story is they are there to clean or for the pets.

BIL 100% has sexual urges/responses. I think it's a bit of a jump to say he's a potential rapist or whatever, any more than an adolescent boy is (his attitude is a LOT like that of the young teenage boys I have been around), but I'd be lying if it hadn't occurred to me in the past. However the years have shown that he is very much not interested in having sex himself as it were (he has been approached by sex workers in the past). But of course, who knows, I am very far from being an expert.

He lies and steals to get out of 'trouble' or when he feels overwhelmed. He worked in a supermarket a few years ago and, as he presents so normally, was given work which was beyond his capabilities. He told them his girlfriend had been killed in a car accident and stopped going - he left the house as normal and would hang around the village until hometime. MIL found out when a friend mentioned she'd seen him sitting in the bus shelter for hours.

I couldn't have him on his own at our house in case he went off exploring and got in trouble :(

The 'should've known' thing is hard. When I met BIL he was a teenager himself and very different. And I was stupid and in love and everything seemed under control. It didn't occur to me to ask what the longterm plans were beyond the little I did ask.

The trust fund isn't for BIL, it's for his care, with DH and an uncle as the trustees(? they decide what's done with the money). So it sort of has been thought about but not by MIL and she was very angry when her parents went 'over her head' and set up the trust rather than left it to her to use to care for BIL iyswim.

She is also terrified that he will be taken advantage of by a woman who finds out about the fund and marries him and gets him to sue for control of it(??) - I have no idea if that is possible or likely but that's the kind of lines she thinks along AND I know that she is suspicious of me along the same lines and is intending to change things so DH can't take any money out without various permissions.

So she's not going to listen to me or to DH if she thinks he's influenced by me basically. It's all a terrible mess and I know BIL hasn't been best served over the years.