to not want disabled BIL to live with us

[sonotready]

I feel like a total shit and am well prepared to be flamed, prob. deserve it :(

BIL is disabled - birth accident left him brain damaged, with learning/mental issues rather than physical ones. He is a nice guy (mid 30s now), who doesn't know he's disabled iyswim.

DH grew up knowing he would always need to look after his brother (MIL a single mum), and over the years we have hd 4am mercy dashes to police stations (when BIL feels threatened he lashes out and he'd been cornered by another service user at a drop-in centre), had to cope with BIL's 'friends' selling all his things and dealing drugs out of his flat and all sorts. Eventually BIL was persuaded to move back in with MIL (because she 'needed help' not because he needed someone to keep an eye), and he rubs along okay looking after the pets and doing garden work. MIL works away. They live five hours from us.

When DH and I got together I was late teens and while I did know on some level that one day BIL's care would fall to us I didn't fully appreciate what it would mean. BIL 'seems fine' and I was very young and MIL was far from old or frail.

We've been over for the festive season and MIL has raised the possibility of BIL coming to stay with us for a while as she needs a break. DH feels strongly we must do this, and I sort of agree, but I will be the one looking out for him all the time as DH works and I'm a SAHM. MIL is making out that it will be free babysitting for the DCs but given how BIL reacts to unpredictable things happening that's just not going to happen until the DCs are a lot lot older - he's fine playing XBOX with them and they love that, but DH vividly remembers BIL setting fire to the grillpan accidentally and then panicking and disabling the smoke alarm so he didn't get in trouble and running out of the house leaving DH and MIL asleep upstairs... so I just couldn't leave him in charge of young children.

DH's already had a massive go at me for letting BIL use his laptop (apparently it was 'obvious' that he'd be downloading porn and other dodgy things), and my mobile (he said he wanted to play angry birds and has run up £££ of charges to sex lines - MIL said I was stupid to give it to him but nobody has ever told me he has form for that before!)

MIL is dropping hints that we should bring BIL home with us when we go back - I really really don't want to, not without a lot more preparation and a lot more understanding of what it is going to involve.

I've asked about official respite (total no go apparently for lots of reasons, also MIL doesn't want someone to 'look after' BIL she wants him to do a 'normal thing like visiting his brother, he's always asking why you don't have him to stay').

DH thinks IABU - what do you think?

This is a very tricky situation, OP, - there's no way you deserve a flaming.

You haven't said 'No way, forget it' about your BIL, you've said 'This is a complex situation, let's talk it through.' I can fully understand your concerns, - as you say, it wouldn't be fair to leave him unsupervised with the children, so, in reality, it is to YOU that the majority of the day-to-day caring will take place.

Your BIL sounds like he needs careful supervision, - the lying, the use of porn sites and sex lines, stealing from you (ordering things on your account is stealing) and occasional violent outbursts all add up to it being a servious committment on your part.

This CANNOT be something that goes undiscussed, - your H and MIL cannot simply pack him off to your house for an indeterminate period, and expect YOU to deal with this.

What about your DH using a week of annual leave to stay at his mums with BIL and MIL can go away or come to you? Then DH will get a good experience of what your BIL needs on a daily basis, in a good comfortable environment for BIL and MIL can get a rest.

Would that be feasible?

It sounds like you would need to state very clearly when he could come and for how long e.g.1 week to see how he gets on. It sounds like he / your MIL may be entitled to benefits, respite care etc and a referral to a Community Learning Disability Team and to the Social Work department could help with that - but that would only work if your MIL agreed to it - it wouldnt really help while he was with you. As others have said it sounds like you need a proper discussion about what is going to happen when your MIL is no longer able to care for him herself (and if she's talking in the way she is currently then it sounds like that might not be that far off). There are lots of great supported accommodation providers out there - its not like the old days of going into a care home - and it might be that he would benefit a lot from this type of set up. Again though, if your MIL has firm ideas about this it is going to be difficult to progress any of this. Maybe you and your husband need to start by agreeing what you are able / prepared to provide?

I would also suggest speaking to MenCap. My MILs friend has an adult daughter with severe learning difficulties, and Mencap are excellent for advice and also a support system too.

You have to consider the impact that this would have on your lives, holidays, school holidays, your kids having friends round? It would be very unfair on your children I feel.

Your DH's expectations are wrong on so many levels. There is no way I'd want to be alone in the house with an adult man with learning difficulties, who has form for downloading porn, ringing sex lines, and attacking people who have upset him. Even a nurse in a specialist unit would not be put in that position, there would always be immediate back up.

YANBU, your DH is. The safety of you and your DCs is paramount.

That aside, it is not your job to be carer to your BIL. If your DH can offer respite during his holiday time that is different.

Thankyou so much for the responses.

DH's longterm plan, such as it is, is that BIL will be a lot older and easier to manage (MIL is late 50s), and that we will find residential or full-time care then. Using the money from his grandparents (going into trust for BIL's care). I know, I know, and it's easy to say 'make him face it' but he won't.

YANBU. It's not fair that you should simply be expected to become this man's care because you are a woman, which is what is actually happening here. Your H will be out at work and the burden will fall on you. It is also unfair for your DC to have to live with a man who (though he can't help it) is potentially violent, unpredictable and preoccupied with sex. You need to be firm about the fact that professional help must be involved from now on.

YANBU.
There is no way you should agree to this. If your DP feels he wants to do it then HE should be the one to do it, not you.

It would be more or less a full time job being his carer since he can't really be left unsupervised and it would change the whole dynamic of your family.

You should be clear with your husband this is not what you signed up for. Your husbands guilt is not your problem. It's HIS problem.

They need to look into proper long term residential care. Living with a growing family is not a solution.

MIL will not, absolutely will not, go to SS or anything like that and I can't do it on BIL's behalf (have tried). He doesn't know he is disabled and reacts badly to being with 'a bunch of weirdos' (what he said about the drop-in centre, he was angry he was made to go and found it intimidating).

DH is sloooowly coming round to my more aggressive stance on planning for the future and in some ways a visit might be helpful to wake him up a bit. He's had 30+ years of indoctrination from MIL so it's hard.

YANBU to say no for the moment. By the sounds of it you do not know your BIL to adequately provide the support he needs (I don't mean that as a slight against you, just that you would be unprepared and not in a position to provide the correct care), the laptop and the phone are examples of that.

Caring for someone with learning difficulties or MH issues is hard, my DS has severe GDD and ASD and it's physically and emotionally draining and sometimes, very isolating socially, it would impact upon your family life a great deal.

On the other hand, I understand why your DH wants to help out his Mum, it's natural that he wants to give her a break so a compromise is needed.

Are you in a position to care for BIL for a a week or two at a time, three times a year (as long as it is planned in advance and you are given time to prepare of course)?

In the long term, your MIL and BIL definitely should be looking into getting professional support. I am fully aware of how difficult it can be for some to admit they can't cope and need help from outside, I've worked with many families who've struggled with it. But, the time comes when you must face up to it, MIL cannot care for BIL forever and you are not the long term solution.

What makes your dh think that you bil will be easier to care for when he is older?.

I think you need to have a good chat with a friend and work out exactly what level of care you are prepared to give. Are you prepared to have him stay for two weeks, three weeks, will dh have to take that time off work, or arrange to work from home for a certain number of hours? Work out what will be expected of you and how much of that you are prepared to do while you are looking after a young family. Would you consider letting him stay for longer during term times when your dc are at school?

Then when you know how much you are prepared to do, you need to have a full and honest talk with your dh. That needs to be when you get home though, you simply won't be able to have the sort of conversation you need to have while you are still staying with them.

And you go from there. It is important that you kn ow everything you will need to know to care for him, so you are going to have to think up some questions. It clearly seemed obvious to your dh and your mil that bil couldn't be trusted with your phone, but that's because they have lived with it for a long time and have got used to these things. It might be hard for them to think of the things you need to know because it has become second nature to them. But as you are under pressure to look after him, you will need to ask the questions and make sure you get honest answers.

Don't allow yourself to agree to anything you do not feel you can cope with, because that won't do any of you any good at all. You also need to make sure that you and dh are on the same page and your relationship is strong enough, because it will be tough on you.

SingingStar I like the idea of DH going to BIL so MIL can have a break, will suggest it.

The DCs all worship BIL because he plays console games with them but it wouldn't be fair on anyone to have them spend long periods together unsupervised. BIL more likely to withdraw/go unresponsive than lash out but he's not alone with them iyswim.

MIL will not, absolutely will not, go to SS or anything like that and I can't do it on BIL's behalf (have tried).

Then sorry, but she will have to carry on as she is. What about her GP? Is there anyone that can go with her to see the GP and see if they can offer any help.

He doesn't know he is disabled and reacts badly to being with 'a bunch of weirdos' (what he said about the drop-in centre, he was angry he was made to go and found it intimidating).

This is why it would be completely unrealistic and very unreasonable to expect you to cope with this situation, as it is likely to result at some point in more violence, and a very unpleasant and uncomfortable atmosphere in your home, as well as it would potentionally be putting your own children at risk.

YANBU I think it is really unfair on you that your whole family life should be disrupted in this way. I am all in favour of families pulling their weight and helping each other but he is not your child and not your responsibility. If your DH wants to care for him send him to MILs to do it.

I don't care If I sound mean but there is no way I would have this . The only way i would allow it is
Moving to a house with a small annexe / converted garage ( I'm guessing he gets benefits ) so use these for the uplift on mortgage/ rent . And make sure there is help available . He sounds a bit scary to be honest , setting fire to stuff and surfing porn .my children are my priority !!

Slavetofilofax what DH means (he can't put it that baldly), is that when MIL is dead we can do things differently.

Can you take BIL away for a cheapie caravan break or something, close to where he lives for a week, to give MIL a respite? This would prevent him coming to yours and his return date slipping, or DH and MIL getting used to the idea that you look after him.

He needs a social worker. Does mil not realise that community care is completely different from child protection?

If dp wants bil to stay at your house then he needs to give up work to look after him. He can't assume you'll do this? What about when the dcs are older and you go back to work-what then?- you be his carer until you're 70!

OP, if MIL is only in her late fifties, it could easily be another 20 years before she dies. She is going to get more frail, and he is going to be a physically fit adult with the mind of an adolescent. It isnt a situation that can be ignored forever, and by the time MIL dies, you will be middle ages yourselves.

It is really difficult isn't it. I can see why your DH feels he needs to help his Mum, but what he really needs to do is make her face reality, but that is bloody hard when he wont do that himself. I think you should keep talking to him about how impractical this is. On this visit alone you have been blamed (at least) twice for things that you had no idea you were 'doing wrong'. You have 2 young children to think about, will it also be their fault when they let him do something?

If DH's Mum needs respite (which I can totally understand she does!!) then she needs to face up to the reality that her DS does have special needs and that there is help out there for her.

There is no way I'd agree to this unless DH took time off of work and agreed to being responsible for his brother 24/7 and even then I don't think it's the best solution to the problem, which is going to become more and more regular and eventually your DH's problem full time.

He doesn't know he's brain damaged?

It sounds as if during his life a lot of overcompensation has been made for your BIL by his family. To this end he now sounds like a complete nightmare to live with.

And by that I don't mean his disabilties - my cousin has Down Syndrome and I would have him here in a heartbeat, if something happened to my Aunt. I mean this pornography obsession and complete lack of respect for anyone and their belongings. Does this really stem from brain damage?

The reason I wouldn't have him in my house would be the complete lack of trust rather than the weight of the duty of care.

Sorry to sound harsh op, but inviting someone with a porn obsession into my family home would leave me very concerned. i agree with the previous poster, have his mum round and get dh to manage the care at their house.

Your MIL needs to take responsibility for his future care via the appropriate agencies not by trying to dump this on you and your DH. He obviously has care needs and therefore if he can't live independently then provision will have to come from the appropriate agencies. It's unfair to expect you to do it.

It's not just the situation for you now that makes this intolerable. it's also your future career and life plans that are being affected by this decision. Everyone else wins - MIL gets to feel that she hasn't foisted her son off onto SS/carers, your DH gets to feel he is taking care of his family, and BIL gets to be looked after in a setting he likes but which isn't necessarily the best for him. What do you get? To run yourself into the ground in a potentially volatile and dangerous environment, worrying about your children all the time and giving up all your future ambitions to take care of somebody else's child/brother. You can't do this.

Refuse to take BIL back with you and agree that you and DH will research and discuss options and speak to MIL in, say, 6 weeks.

YANBU at all, especially as what your DH seems to be planning is that you, not he, will be looking after BIL, and he and MIL haven't prepared you for it all. They are also BU by leaving the visit open-ended.
I second the idea of sending DH there for a week to find out what it's actually like, or him taking time off and staying home with BIL. He sounds quite a handful even if you didn't have your own DCs to take care of.
It doesn't sound as though they have really explored what possible external support is available after one unfortunate experience.
It's understandable that MIL feels she can't cope, but it's unreasonable of her to simply hand him over to you indefinitely.

It's a really tall order to have him stay, even for a couple of days - sounds like he would need constant supervision. You need much more help and preparation before deciding if you are comfortable to have him in your home. I really wouldn't want to do more than a couple of days to start with, regardless of the distance. It's natural that the MIL needs a break and is concerned about long term care, and he's your BIL so your husband's flesh and blood so naturally you are both keen to help if you can. But I think sheltered accommodation would be the answer in the long term, either near MIL or you, depending on MIL's health.