To be angry that fil has got the dc Oxfam goats for Christmas?

[lecce]

I'm not sure exactly why but this has seriously pissed me off. The dc are 2 and 4 and these 'gifts' arrived today in the post, though fil will be spending Christmas day with us.

We are not hugely well-off and I suppose I feel that if he thinks the dc don't need yet more toys (they are by no means spolit, but I often get the sense form all the in-laws that they think our dc have too much - odd little comments like, "My goodness, those can't all be your toys surely," etc etc) he could have got clothes, paid for a day out or put money in their savings account etc. I know it probably doesn't show me in a very positive light, but I don't think our dc are so ridiculously priviliged that they need to be taught this lesson. Of course they are well-fed, clothed and have plenty of toys (some of their clothing and toys are second-hand, though admittedly only because there are brands I like that I can't afford new) but we can't afford holidays other than UK camping, expensive days out more than a couple of times a year and some of their Christmas presents are from Ebay. When I think about the future and the dc going to university I feel a bit panicky. Dh also has MS so our future is perhaps a little more uncertain than others'.

Of course we are hugely better off than the people Oxfam help but so is fil and he has not informed us that this is what he is doing and told us to get him a simialr gift has he? No, he will recieve a gift for himself on Christmas day. This is the main part that annoys me. Why does he get to decide that others have too much, while receiving more for himself?

For the record, I try to make the dc aware of others less fortunate than themselves and we often donate old itemss to charity and talk about the children who might be receiving them. However, I feel they are too young to have to worry about this too much and I don't want to make them feel guilty about what they have. In any case, I don't feel it is up to fil to dictate the way in which we appraoch the moral education of our dc.

I am so annoyed - AIBU?

YANBU. The grandchildren are too young to understand. My girls received Oxfam cards (teach a teacher) from their Grandparents but they are much older.

Why not do some research and get them excited about the goats?

Is it possible to get a 2 & 4 year old excited about goats they can't see or touch? Maybe toddlers these days are more conceptual than mine were - but there is no way my DCs would have been able to be excited about a goat they were never going to meet!!!!!!

YANBU.

For older children this might be a good "consciousness raising gift" (if you were feeling patronising about raising other people's kids' consciousness) but 2 and 4? Nothing for them to open on the day? That's just bloody ridiculous.

I'd be inclined to hold over the gift you bought for him for his birthday. Donate a few tins of food and a couple of bags of pasta to your local food bank instead (ours do collections outside local supermarkets) which will help families with young children to make ends meet over the Christmas period. You can also donate online. Here's one, but you might find your own local one by googling (your town).foodbank.org

www.trusselltrust.org/

If you want to give him something on the day, you could make a donation online, print off the page from the internet and stick it in an envelope for the kids to give him.

Just think of it as his loss, really.

I don't like charity gifts for other people. I think charity giving and gift buying should be seperate UNLESS the gift recipient has actually requested it.

If someone wants to give to charity - fine. Do it but doing it on behalf of yourself.

I'd rather someone did that and not buy me a gift tbh.

I don't need anyone to do my charity giving for me. I'd rather they didn't.

yanbu, its ok for older kids but for a 2 and 4 year old? No hes being a prat by trying to prove a point that doesnt need making.

If your FIL wants to give to charity, he can spend his own money - not pretend it's a gift for someone else, especially not small children, FGS. What a sod. Unless he surprises you by bringing gifts on Christmas day.

YANBU

'It's all very well to give one's own breakfast to the Hummels - quite another to make free with someone else's'
(Rowan Marlow)

As everyone's said, your kids are too young to 'get' this or learn from it - it's a message to you, and he seems to have decided they have too much. Which is annoying.

Although if he's coming for Christmas day, could he be bringing a proper present then?

I want an update too!

I like the idea of spending family Xmas time/money on people who need it more, whether a goat or something local. I give a lot of time to charity but nothing involves my DCs ATM, I think that's a good idea.

YANBU. We have a family agreement that we limit presents to adults to £10 and buy charity "gifts" with the money we would otherwise have spent, but we don't apply that to children. I do buy charity gifts for my godchildren, but in addition to their real presents, not instead of. I think it's an important part of my role to support what their parents are teaching them about giving BUT I wouldn't feel it was my place to get preachy on them if their parents weren't keen.

YANBU. If your DC were too young to know or care then it would be an alternative to putting money into a savings account for them, but giving someone else a present and saying that you 'got it' for a 2yo and 4yo is rather odd.

I thought that charity gifts like this were given at the request of the receiver i.e. someone you would normally buy a present for asking for the money to be spent on chickens/goats/wells instead. If someone bought me a charity gift I wouldn't mind because I'm an adult and don't really need anything that I can't buy for myself, but I don't think it's ok to do this to children.

mathanxiety what a lovely post. I want to print a bit out and blu tak it up in my kitchen.

"Notice how he didn't ask for the same for himself and expects a gift on christmas day...not practising what he preaches."
In fairness to him, he may not want to presume he is receiving any gift at all.

Thanks for all the replies.

I have said I am angry but I have no intention of showing him that I am. All the posters who have suggested that I donate his lunch to charity have made me but I have no intention of doing so and will smilingly hand him his gift.

Yes, there is a bit of history. I do feel he can be pretty selfish - one year he planned to go to his then-gf's for Christmas and dh and I (pre-dc) planned a quiet one alone. Then he decided he didn't want to go there a week before the day and so we invited him. He then infomed us he didn't like the turkey we'd already bought and would prefer fish! We bought fish . He always brings one bottle of wine, mil will bring another and that is the only contribution they make although we host 4 of them. So, I don't think he is altruistic but has decided that my children need to be. .

Btw, I have not meant to imply that it will ruin, or even spoil, my dc's day. Of course it won't - the 2yo won't notice and the 4 yo would surprise me greatly if he creid and demended a goat in the room! I will admit I am annoyed on my own behalf and not the dc's.

I do feel the 4yo will have some understanding of what the gift is for, but this will take time and effort to explain. I am a f/t teacher - I finished work yesterday and still have a lot to do to get ready for Sunday. I don't have time to research it, get a scrapbook etc (though I do like the idea and will do so in the NY) and, frankly, why should I? No one likes being preached at, do they? This gift has made me want to fish our 'emergencies only' credit card out from the back of the drawer and drive to Toys R Us and get the biggest, tackiest, louudest, least-'right-on' pile of plastic tat ever to fill the house with on Sunday and really piss off the in-laws. I won't though .

Someone mentioned that there won't be time to sit down with ds1 and explain the significance of the goat on Christmas Day and this is a good point. I think it's the kind of thing that takes a bit of time and quiet and effort and that won't really be possible on Sunday. I will be pissed-off beyond belief if ds1 shows little interest in it because (understandably) he will be distracted by toys etc and barbed comments are made about how spoilt he is. I think that would be really unfair but I can see it happening. I may decide to put them away until after the day to avoid this.

Yes, I am angry that a pretty affluent, elderlyish man who has a large, paid-for house and a pretty nice life has decided that my dc, who are priviliged compared to many but NOT spoilt and have a father with an incurable disease, have 'too much' and has chosen Christmas Day to teach them this.

I agree it is not really suitable as a gift for DC of that age as they are too young to "get" it.

Great that he has helped Oxfam and I do support these gifts (bought some myself this year for adults who I know will appreciate it!) but I don't think it really has much connection to your DC. I see what you mean that it is a bit if the intended message is that they are spoiled.

I think the suggestion of a little goat scrap book or small toy goat to make the connection is a good one, but they are even too young for a scrap book really at 2 and 4!

OP, this might cheer you up - it's a send-up re the ethical dilemmas of the goats for Africa debate:
www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/5999/

Olgaga

A goat for charity and a small present would be great I feel- agree with he teacher who posted that it isn't ever too early to get an idea that others don't have what you do and there are ways to help (other than "there are children starving in the world who'd love to have you soggy cabbage so eat it all up"!!).

Best thing for the child would be a bit or real tat- a poundland tiara or similar that will be worshipped for a few days then broken/lost!

My teen DCs have had music therapy sessions from their DGP for a few years along with a smaller gift and they understand and love them.

As to his present- would be entirely right to donate it to a charity. Either as "serves you right" or in the real spirit of Christmas giving in which case I'd get a toilet!! A hillariously funny but amazing "good gift"

Grrrrr....this makes me so angry! YA(definitely)NBU. What a passive-aggressive thing to do, made worse by being disguised as philanthropy. Of course there's a place for charity gifts. Have recently bought 2 of them myself, one for a friend's 50th and another for a colleague's retirement, but in both cases requested by the person in question and for charities they found meaningful.

The "goat" part of FIL's "gift" clouds the issue a bit; makes you think of something cute and cuddly and maybe child-friendly. But it will have absolutely no meaning for a 2 and a 4 year old. They probably won't even miss getting a real present (although you could prompt the 4 year old to look sadly at grandddad ). This really has nothing to do with the children at all and everything to do with criticising you in a way that makes it almost impossible for you to respond. I'm afraid I would respond in kind...return whatever present you've gotten FIL and tell him that you think his idea is such a good one that you've copied him and made a charity donation as his gift as well (and I'd be evil enough to choose a charity whose mission he'd hate).

YANBU - this (and all similar) is NOT a gift! If you ask someone to donate to a charity on your behalf (in which case you get the warm fuzzy feeling of "I've been charitable") then fine but this is your FIL effectively deciding not to do gifts this year but to donate to charity instead. These kind of gifts just enable the doner to get the warm feeling, as they donate to a charity of their choice, and you are supposed to be grateful for it - it is a complete con.

I do think that donating to charity, especially ones working in the developing world, is an excellent idea; but it is something that an individual does on their own behalf. I can't see how person A can do something kind for person B and then claim that this act is actualy thier present to person C.

I just can't get all worked up about the few instances in which people in wealthy countries don't get yet more stuff that they don't need.

nor can I

we really don't need anything.

I agree

But to virtually demand it (by getting angry) just because it's Christmas???

but the OP wasn't getting angry because the FIL had said "I'm not doing presents I'm giving to charity" (which I think would have been fine). She is getting angry because the FIL is pretending to give presents by claiming to be giving a goat when in fact he is donating to charity instead. This is hyprocritical and wrong.

Don't be too hard on him...if he is with you on Christmas day as well, he may have other little presents that are 'openable' and more age-appropriate. Sorry to introduce a sexist note, however, and add the caution that he is a bloke, though, and if anything like my FIL, may not be known for his stunning present ideas. Perhaps he thought it was a really good idea (like my DH who bought a similar gift card of 'worms' for his sister one year...he was remembering childhood pastimes of gathering worms and trying to be helpful by digging them underneath his Dad's growing marrows, and was delighted to find it. She remembered nothing of this and was seriously unimpressed). Possibly it may have been the first time he'd come across these "charity gifts", even though you might consider them a bit old hat. I am sure the DCs won't really miss a 'better' present as they get into the ones they do open, and really want, in a couple of days.

Herekittykitty There is a cohort of MNers who are consistently against charitable gifts such as goats. It is a stance that I find extremely difficult to understand.

can you explain how these charitable gifts are gifts to the person supposedly receiving them? They are not - they are just ways of enabling the giver to both take the moral highground and pretend that they are also giving a gift to someone. If the FIL (or anyone else who gives this kind of "gift" unasked for) really wanted to act for charity then he'd have said "I'm not doing presents this year, I'm donating to Oxfam, please do not give me anything but feel free to donate to Oxfam on my behalf". What actually happens in general is that the giver gets both the nice "I've donated to Oxfam" feeling and also a gift for themselves. Seems very selfish to me.

Even for older children - the same holds. It is not a gift.

I am all for giving to charity, I also think that we have way too much in the developed world and that we should give way more to the deleloping world but that is a separate argument. It is fine to say "I'm not doing presents, I'm donating to charity" but it is not fine to lie about what you are doing by pretending to give a gift when it is not a gift.

No one has answered that yet soggy. I asked it further up but have been ignored, presumably because there is no answer to it. Whatever else it is (and whoever the 'recipient' is, it isn't a gift.

I wonder why cards, intended to be sent way before Christmas, which say "please do not buy me anything this year but donate any money that you would have spent to XXX instead, I will still buy you something" are not popular but cards which say "I haven't bothered to get you anything because I think that you have too much but I also want to pretend to be giving presents so that I get one back" are?

I'm wondering how many of the posters who think it is a lovely gift for a 2yo and a 4 yo have bought the same lovely gift for they own children.