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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be hopping mad about this?

259 replies

ParisTravelodge · 18/12/2011 09:07

My Dds (twins aged 14), have just returned from a school trip to Germany.

Whilst there, they and other girls in the group had their bums felt/slapped by German boys of 17/18 yrs.
This happened frequently in markets, shopping centres etc.
They were all horrified by this, and told a female teacher in her 20s, who told the girls it was their own fault for wearing skinny jeans and leggings!

Am writing letter to school about it.
A friend suggested I am overeacting to cultural differences, and the girls should be flattered!
Tbh I am angry at teacher's response mostly.
What do you think?
Has anyone else experienced this?

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 18/12/2011 09:23

YANBU... We might expect to be warned about that kind of behaviour in one of the more backward nations and told to cover up bare shoulders on hot days or whatever, but I don't think it's a cultural given in Germany that normally-dressed young women are subjected to harrassment. The teacher should have taken the problem more seriously... at least given the girls some german expletives to hurl back at anyone getting too close for comfort rather than suggest they were at fault.

oldenoughtowearpurple · 18/12/2011 09:26

Hmm. Didn't want to let this one go undebated. I speak as a mother of a teenage daughter.

If I had discovered my son had been feeling up girls I would be extremely angry

BUT

I think it's unreasonable for girls to waltz around in very revealing clothes then get outraged when boys get the message that the girls are up for it. If the girls want respect and to be treated as 'mates' not sex objects then they need to wear clothing that gives that impression: they need to play fair.

The fact that a female teacher in her 20s made this comment to them makes me think she may have had a bit of a point: she's young enough to understand current fashion and female so may well have come in for the odd sexist comment in her time.

Have you spoken to the teacher? What exactly do you plan to say to the school?

marykat2004 · 18/12/2011 09:28

A bit surprised by this. Italy is known for bum pinching (I was well warned before my first trip there at age 19), but Germany? Really?

marykat2004 · 18/12/2011 09:31

But , no, it is not acceptable at all to let your bum be slapped. I guess I'm just saying that I've never heard of Germany in particular having this reputation, so how could they be warned in advance? I've always found Germans fairly reserved. Now France, that is a country of obnoxious men.. hotter countries for sure are like that and women should be warned..

JingleBelleDameSansMerci · 18/12/2011 09:31

Or, of course, we could expect that people can wear what they like and not be subjected to harassment... Skinny jeans and leggings don't sound particularly outrageous to me.

The teacher's attitude is appalling, frankly. They should be flattered by unwanted touching? That's the kind of "she was asking for it" attitude that perpetuates rape myths.

DaisySteiner · 18/12/2011 09:31

Do you really think that dressing in a particular way gives men the right to sexually assault a woman? Really?! Do you think so little of men that you believe they are incapable of controlling themselves because a woman wears something sexy?

MissAnnersley · 18/12/2011 09:34

Good grief, what century are we in? How on earth can it be the fault of the girls?

OP YANBU. I would be contacting the school absolutely.

DaisySteiner · 18/12/2011 09:35

OP YANBU. I would be livid.

Trills · 18/12/2011 09:35

Why have you posted this twice?

YANBU to be annoyed.

I don't know especially what the teachers could have done, but their attitude is appalling.

penguinpenguin · 18/12/2011 09:37

daisy Xmas Grin

mumatron · 18/12/2011 09:42

Shock really oldenough? women should be able to wear what the hell they want to wear without being subjected to bum slapping or pinching.

Leggings and skinny jeans are in no way sexually enticing. I wear one or the other daily and have never had my arse pinched.

OP please complain, women should never be subjected to this kind of behaviour and the teacher should know better.

Haziedoll · 18/12/2011 09:42

The girls should be able to walk around naked without having their arses slapped. Anyway skinny jeans and leggings are every day wear.

Appalled by the reaction of the teacher and shocked by the reaction of your friend. Cultural differences do not make it okay and the Germans are not really any different from the Brits.

Trills · 18/12/2011 09:45

Leggings and skinny jeans are in no way sexually enticing.

And even if they were, they still shouldn't have got their bums slapped.

If you really think they should be able to wear what they like then there is no need to add this on the end, because saying that what they were wearing was not enticing suggests that you need to say that it was not, and suggests that things might be different if what they were wearing was "enticing".

jarl · 18/12/2011 09:46

"Do you really think that dressing in a particular way gives men the right to sexually assault a woman? Really?! Do you think so little of men that you believe they are incapable of controlling themselves because a woman wears something sexy?"

If I were to dress as a clown and start talking about the monetary crisis, would you take me seriously*? If a man puts on makeup and starts talking about well, anything, would he be taken seriously? And yet, if a women puts on clothes which make her looks like a hooker, you think she can realistically expect to be treated like a princess?

You want to be treated like a slut, dress like a slut. You want to be taken seriously, don't dress like a clown. I'm NOT condoning rape/ sexual assault. However, choose how you want to be treated and viewed by others (slut or princess?) and dress accordingly. Just like you wouldn't go to work in pyjamas.

*maybe a bad example... ;)

CatPower · 18/12/2011 09:46

Xmas Angry Xmas Angry Xmas Angry

YANBU at all. To be honest I'm perplexed as to why any woman would point the finger of blame at the victims of this unwanted attention. Even if the girls had been wearing boob tubes and micro minis it would not have meant that they were fair game to be groped as and when.

oldenoughtowearpurple, you might want to take a look at this just to remind yourself that a girl's clothing is not an invitation -

penguinpenguin · 18/12/2011 09:48

Jari Xmas Shock is that really how you see the world? :(

MissAnnersley · 18/12/2011 09:51

jarl - your posts are so full of ridiculous language -sluts? princesses? hookers?

Who thinks this way?

ZillionChocolate · 18/12/2011 09:52

If they were dressing provocatively (which takes far more/less than skinny jeans), then they should expect to be looked at, but nothing more. I don't think the teachers can do anything about it after the event, but that attitude is appalling. I would consider asking for a meeting to discuss it. Make sure there hasn't been a misunderstanding before you go in with guns blazing.

JingleBelleDameSansMerci · 18/12/2011 09:53

jari if I pop on a crown are you going to treat me like royalty? Hmm

MissAnnersley · 18/12/2011 09:55

That would make you a 'princess' JingleBelleDameSansMerci

DaisySteiner · 18/12/2011 09:58

Regardless of the riduculousness of your post jari I would expect any woman, regardless of their clothes to be treated with respect and dignity. Nobody deserves to be groped in the street, even if they walk around naked.

jarl · 18/12/2011 09:59

PenguinPenguin: You find my POV just as shocking as I find your POV that a women can walk down the street naked and attract no unwanted attention. What you wear sets a first impression. If a man wore a pair of trackies to an interview and didn't get the job then you'd say it's down to what he was wearing. When I suggest that the same thing applies to women you're shocked...

Miss Annersley: How would you have worded it? You understand what I'm saying perfectly well, so why attack the language used?

Jinglebelledame: rent a royalty costume for a day, walk round town centre. You'll get treated differently because you look like royalty. Wear slutty clothes, walk round town centre, you'll get treated differently again. Which message do you want to send, which way do you want to get treated?

squeakytoy · 18/12/2011 10:01

I think Jarl sums things up perfectly.

DaisySteiner · 18/12/2011 10:03

There is a massive difference between not giving someone a job because they were dressed inappropriately for a job interview and sexually assaulting someone because they were wearing something 'sexy'.

Or perhaps you think it would be OK to beat a man up because he looked like a thug as he was wearing a pair of trackies???

MissAnnersley · 18/12/2011 10:06

How would I have worded it jarl?

Well, as I disagree with the point you are making it is unlikely that I would have 'worded it' at all.

However I am agog at all the costumes hiring and dressing up in your imagery.

I do not take your point.