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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be hopping mad about this?

259 replies

ParisTravelodge · 18/12/2011 09:07

My Dds (twins aged 14), have just returned from a school trip to Germany.

Whilst there, they and other girls in the group had their bums felt/slapped by German boys of 17/18 yrs.
This happened frequently in markets, shopping centres etc.
They were all horrified by this, and told a female teacher in her 20s, who told the girls it was their own fault for wearing skinny jeans and leggings!

Am writing letter to school about it.
A friend suggested I am overeacting to cultural differences, and the girls should be flattered!
Tbh I am angry at teacher's response mostly.
What do you think?
Has anyone else experienced this?

OP posts:
DaisySteiner · 18/12/2011 10:06

I'm guessing all the women posting on here that it's OK to touch up a woman for wearing skinny jeans are usually attired in floral dresses and Alice bands?! And if so, then if you happened to pass a man in the street who found such clothes alluring it would be fair play to squeeze your boobs?!

Trills · 18/12/2011 10:08

WTF is a royalty costume?

At a job interview you are deliberately dressing for the interviewers because you want them to pay attention to you and think well of you.

Walking down the street, I am not dressing for random passers-by. I don't care what they think of me, and I have no desire to have any interaction with them.

raspberryroop · 18/12/2011 10:09

rent a royalty costume for a day, - WTF is a royalty costume

MissAnnersley · 18/12/2011 10:10

jarl is fond of a costume it would appear.

jarl · 18/12/2011 10:11

ask your DH to drive an audi to a rough area, park it, leave the keys in the ignition and walk around for half an hour in a suit with a flashy watch, and when the car gets nicked, and he gets beaten up & mugged, express surprise and "shock".

Or actually, don't. And don't walk round a city centre on a friday night with no clothes then express shock if you get sexually assaulted.

Not saying it's right, just saying use your brain.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourMincePies · 18/12/2011 10:18

When we were thirteen/fourteen we went on a school trip to France and one of my friends had her bum slapped by a man in a shop. He was in his 40's or 50's and we were in baggy jeans and bad, stripy 80's jumpers from Benetton.

And on the same trip but a different day a group of older teens/early twenties males were shouting "would you have sex with me" at us.

I think the justification behind it was that we were young foreign girls who had been allowed to walk around a safe shopping area 'alone' and were viewed as fair game, rather than anything we were wearing.

My friend ran after and kicked the man who slapped her, then her sister followed and did the same thing.

Nothing a person choses to wear is an invitation for a stranger (or friend or acquaintance) to touch them or slap them or anything else.

MissAnnersley · 18/12/2011 10:19

What is the connection between girls walking around markets in their jeans and walking around naked?

UserNameNotAvailable · 18/12/2011 10:21

Would it be acceptable for someone in a bikini on holiday to be groped by men? Lets face it, its basically a bra and knickers which is a lot less than being fully covered in leggings or jeans. Should the person wearing a bikini expect to be pounced on by men because they dare to bare some flesh? I don't think so. Of course people will look but I don't think wearing leggings or jeans is anything out of the ordinary.

OP you anbu

DamnDeDoubtance · 18/12/2011 10:23

So Jarl you honestly do not think that the boys did anything wrong?

StealthPenguin · 18/12/2011 10:23

I actually agree with Jarl. This "we can wear what we like" mentality is all well and good, but it doesn't work in practice.

You could also make the argument of "it's my choice" when talking about leaving windows open when you go out, the door unlocked, an expensive bike on the drive and no burglar alarm in sight. It's not 100% fact you'll get burgled, and it isn't 100% your fault either, but you should at least take SOME blame for "making it easier" for the burglar in the first place. There are nasty people out there and leaving yourself vulnerable is asking for trouble.

I don't go out wearing a minidress and getting bladdered because I've had my drink spiked in the past, I'll happily admit that I was at least 33% at fault, and I now know I'm far less likely to be attacked if I'm wearing my nice jeans. Going out in your underwear is just stupid.

MissAnnersley · 18/12/2011 10:25

But these girls were wearing jeans stealth. They weren't leaving themselves vulnerable, they were wearing perfectly normal clothes.

StealthPenguin · 18/12/2011 10:28

Sorry, hit "post" before I realized I'd meant to write another bit

Having said my previous post, these boys were bang out of order. If they groped some normally-dressed girls, God knows what they'd do if they encountered some of the women I know!

RainboweBrite · 18/12/2011 10:30

YANBU, OP.
IMO, the teacher needs to be challenged about her comments. Skinny jeans and leggings are not at all provocative, but even if the girls were dressed provocatively, it still doesn't give anyone the right to touch them.
Write a letter to the school, in a calm, concise manner and make it clear you expect an apology.

ShellyBoobs · 18/12/2011 10:31

Leggings and skinny jeans are in no way sexually enticing.

Of course they are. They show off a girl's shape in perfect detail; that's very alluring! Unless you think that only mico-skirts, etc, are enticing?

Having said that, it shouldn't matter what they were wearing. They're no more 'available' for sexual assault groping than if they were wearing anything else.

I also think it's sad that some people think that men can't control themselves, so shouldn't have temptation put in their way.

ItWasABoojum · 18/12/2011 10:31

Absolutely horrible. Even if the girls had been provocatively dressed (and they clearly weren't), and even if this had made them partially responsible for the way they were treated (and it categorically DIDN'T - can't believe some of the apologists on here) - these are children on a school trip. The job of the teacher is to keep them safe, and if the way they were dressed was likely to cause problems it was the job of that teacher to make sure they dressed appropriately BEFORE any assault took place, not blame them afterwards. Especially in a foreign country where they may not be aware of cultural differences. But that's all by the by - there is no excuse for sexually assaulting a woman, much less a teenage girl, and I am furious on the OP's behalf.

sunnydelight · 18/12/2011 10:31

It" s never acceptable to be on the receiving end of unwanted touching but what exactly do you expect the school to do in retrospect? They would hardly have cindoned such behaviour. I'm guessing the only possible acceptable response would be to stop all future overseas trips - I"m not sure that the younger years would thank you for that.

rosie1977 · 18/12/2011 10:37

I grew up in Germany and it most certainly is not part of the german culture to touch young womens bottoms.
Skinny Jeans and Leggins does not give anyone the right to touch you. Its not like these girls were wearing Bikinis (even then it doesnt excuse the behaviour).

I hope you write a damn good letter and the female 20 yr old teacher is severely reprimanded.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourMincePies · 18/12/2011 10:39

I think what the school can do is tell their members of staff not tell victims of a sexual assault that they are to blame for it.

And judging by some of the replies here they can also start educating their pupils, girls and boys, that unwanted sexual attention is wrong no matter what the victim is wearing, because that doesn't seem to be a lesson some of them will learn at home.

ItWasABoojum · 18/12/2011 10:41

Sorry Rosie, didn't mean to suggest that it was part of German culture - I know it's not. Just that even IF it were, that doesn't excuse it, or the teacher's reaction.

MudAndGlitter · 18/12/2011 10:47

I agree with Jari to a certain point although I don't see leggings and skinny jeans as provocative!
I think it is just a teenage thing, mucking about pinching bums. The fact that they're strangers makes it quite strange and I would complain to the school about the teacher.

rosie1977 · 18/12/2011 10:48

I am so shocked at the posts on here, blaming young girls for wearing Jeans for goodness sake please look at what your writing.

How can 2 14yr old girls be blamed for being groped!!! surely the blame lies in the people who felt it was appropriate to touch them.

And really well done to the girls for reporting the incident to both a teacher and mum.

NinkyNonker · 18/12/2011 10:50

My word, some if the attitudes on here have me thinking I am in the wrong century.

Teenage girls deserve to be felt up for wearing skinny jeans? Well shit me Sherlock. Hoe about teenage boys learn a little respect and self restraint? Hideous.

Op, yanbu, I would bloody well complain. I would be SPITTING at such a hideous attitude from someone in loco parentis of my child, what a message to give them.

gettingalifenow · 18/12/2011 10:53

jarl as a mother of teenage girls who wear leggings and skinny jeans most every day I find your post appalling.

In fact all of their friends wear the same. Are they really all sluts or hookers?

The OP is not talking about mini skirts and cleavage here - she's talking about what most teenagers wear every day of the week.

YuleingFanjo · 18/12/2011 11:01

"I think it's unreasonable for girls to waltz around in very revealing clothes then get outraged when boys get the message that the girls are up for it."

what the actual fuck? You would be happy for your sons to see this seeing girls/women as being up for it because of what they wear as normal?

NinkyNonker · 18/12/2011 11:03

I'd be very disappointed in any boys that felt that way tbh. All hail the sexual revolution/feminism/equality/decency...take your pick.

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