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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be hopping mad about this?

259 replies

ParisTravelodge · 18/12/2011 09:07

My Dds (twins aged 14), have just returned from a school trip to Germany.

Whilst there, they and other girls in the group had their bums felt/slapped by German boys of 17/18 yrs.
This happened frequently in markets, shopping centres etc.
They were all horrified by this, and told a female teacher in her 20s, who told the girls it was their own fault for wearing skinny jeans and leggings!

Am writing letter to school about it.
A friend suggested I am overeacting to cultural differences, and the girls should be flattered!
Tbh I am angry at teacher's response mostly.
What do you think?
Has anyone else experienced this?

OP posts:
YuleingFanjo · 18/12/2011 11:06

fuck me, I have read on and can't believe the comment by Jarl either. I should be able to walk through the streets with my top off and not be assaulted. \It's not normal behaviour to assault people, sexually or otherwise.

post · 18/12/2011 11:11

So if your 14 year old SON was wearing tight jeans, you'd not be surprised or angered if men groped him in the street?

gettingalifenow · 18/12/2011 11:14

and, should also have added, for what its worth, my teenage boy would never dream of touching a girl just because he can see the outline of her figure!! Completely ridiculous.

NinkyNonker · 18/12/2011 11:15

I pity those who have such a low opinion of men (their fathers, husband, sons etc) that they genuinely believe they are weak minded, sexist, lust driven fools who couldn't possibly be able to keep their hands to themselves or recognise that women (and young girls it seems) should be able to go out and expect not to be groped etc.

YonderRevoltingPeasantWhoIsHe · 18/12/2011 11:18

I am totally appalled by the equations between leaving your bedroom window open and wearing slutty Hmm clothes.

In the one example, you are leaving inanimate possessions insecure. These are things you can sell, give away, will replace, etc. You have them insured.

In the other, you are talking about a woman's own body, which she lives in and walks around in. Decorating it in a certain way is not leaving it insecure. It is just clothing.

Also, if I walked around a town centre in a 'royalty costume', I would expect to be chased and shouted at by 12yo boys and/or have people assume I was advertising a panto.

santastophere · 18/12/2011 11:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YonderRevoltingPeasantWhoIsHe · 18/12/2011 11:19

yy Post.

So to those who think men can't control themselves if they see the outline of a woman's figure - I guess you would never allow yourself to be examined by a male doctor in case he totally lost control of his Male Urges Hmm Hmm

nativitywreck · 18/12/2011 11:32

A girl or woman should be able to walk around stark naked and not be touched against her will.
The fact that she can't is in no way her fault.

nativitywreck · 18/12/2011 11:33

And good point post.
How about if it was a 14 year old boy in tight jeans? Is he asking to be groped by older boys and men too?

bananamam · 18/12/2011 11:35

OP I posted on your other thread as there seems to be exactly the same post twice for one reason or another Smile

NinkyNonker · 18/12/2011 11:37

I see a lot of teenage boys in skinny jeans (why oh why) and I bet their mothers would be horrified if any adults, male or female decided to feel them up because of it.

Inertia · 18/12/2011 11:40

I'm astounded that posters on here seriously believe that it's acceptable for 14 year old children (because legally they are children) to be assaulted in the street. What they were wearing is irrelevant. Nobody has the right to judge how revealing they deem somebody else's clothes to be , and then dish out the level of unwanted sexual attention they feel is appropriate.

The teacher should have offered more helpful advice (ensuring the children had the appropriate language skills to say "don't touch me " loudly in German, and knowing how to get help if they felt in danger).

Ifancyashandy · 18/12/2011 11:52

I never swear on here but What. The. Actual. Fuck.

Those that are saying the girls / women should take responsibility for being groped if they are wearing 'revealing' clothing should be fucking ashamed of themselves. They do a disservice to both genders.

I will wear what I want, when I want and will continue to fully expect to be able to go about my business without fear of sexual assault. What message those that disagree giving to young men and women?!? Have we reverted to medieval Britain??

And, for what it's worth, I neither wish to be treated like a 'princess' nor a 'slut' (nice word BTW jarl). I wish to be treated as a human being. You know, equally

penguinpenguin · 18/12/2011 12:01

yonder thank you for posting about linking clothes to breaking into a house, couldn't quite put into words how ridiculous I found that one...

Really do think it's appalling that some people think women are somehow asking for it/should accept that they'll be assaulted because of what they wear. [sceptical]

And jarl I think you place too much emphasis on how people look. I wear jeans to work, doesn't stop me being a fabulous teacher. And I know a fair few males who choose, or have chosen in the past, to wear makeup - I don't see how that makes anything they have to say any less valid. Really find your views a bit bizarre.

PenguinArmy · 18/12/2011 12:09

it's not jarl's opinion that shocks me the most, but the posters agreeing with it.

penguinpenguin · 18/12/2011 12:12

Are there three penguins here now?! :)

LesserOfTwoWeevils · 18/12/2011 12:13

YANBU.
Your poor little DDs. First suffering the trauma of being assaulted and then being told it was their own fault! Shock Angry
And worse yet, they are children!
Please do stand up for them and complain very loudly about the teacher, who was in loco parentis and should have been protecting them, not attacking them.

StewieGriffinsMom · 18/12/2011 12:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

diddl · 18/12/2011 12:15

I´m really surprised to read this tbh.

We live in Germany & it´s not the impression I get of teenagers at all tbh.

My 14yr old daughter has said she gets looked at & occasionally someone from her class-male or female might slap her bum-but that´s it-not strangers.

Emmac50 · 18/12/2011 12:32

I think it's disgusting to even assume that boys and men should be able to just take what they want sexually and that they can't control themselves. I think it's says a lot about the teachers lack of self confidence. I wear leggings but nope no havent received smacks. I remember a trip to France with school and some guys from Italy were hitting on us but even then they didn't smack our bums etc. in Germany I found on another school trip absolutely the same as England boys. I went to Amsterdam with my hubbie a few years back and we saw a little girl no older than 3 - a bloke tried to grab her....was she at fault for wearing a tightish jumper and jeans....no? What's the difference? If people learnt about self respect, self control and self love at school none of this would be a problem. that's my opinion anyway

TheFestiveWife · 18/12/2011 12:33

I'm shocked completely shocked at some of the attitudes on this thread. Xmas Shock This is the 21st century isn't it? Women did get the vote 100 years ago didn't they. Xmas Confused So why the Victorian attitude towards women then? Xmas Confused

Someone very close to me was raped when she was 15, she had her drink spiked and was wearing a minidress and high heels at the time. So according to some of you it was her own fault then? For daring to go out in skimpy clothes? Xmas Angry

I want to know how the millions of men out on a Friday and Saturday night manage to contain themselves with all the scantily clad girl everywhere. I mean there must obviously be something wrong with all the millions of blokes out there who don't grope, sexually assault and rape skimply dressed women on a regular basis then mustn't there? Xmas Confused Obviously there is something wrong with DH, and my dad and all the other males I know then. Xmas Hmm

Wow how dare is women go out in something that is remotely tight or revealing. I mean what about the poor menz? Xmas Hmm We should teach our daughters from a very early age to dress in black baggy clothes from head to toe covering every little bit of flesh as obviously the males of species can't help themselves. It's our duty to make sure we're not touched by men, and if we are it most definately must be our fault.

I really want to swear right now, but my post will probably get deleted. So I will say all rape apologists sod back to the dark ages will you. Xmas Angry

OP I think you should write to the school and complain. The teacher has a very worrying attitute and the fact that she is in a position were a vulnerable young girl might come to her for advice about something like sexual assault or rape, and with that kind of attitude she could do some real damage. It's frightening to think someone with that attitude is teaching young girls! Xmas Shock

SmellslikeSANTAScatspee · 18/12/2011 12:40

The last time i was sexually assaulted I was wearing my work uniform.

But we all know that all nurse are slutty whores in their misfitting cheapy material trousers and baggy tunics with brio stains down the pocket.

I mean really I was just asking for it wasn?t I

I personally assume that most men have the intelligence and general respect for women to know that they own their own bodies. That is women have the right to decide who touches them and when.

Only rapists use the excuse the pathetic crap of ?well look at what she was wearing?. . . .

So by that reason any man who wanders around in just shorts is asking/ deserves to be assaulted. (as so many do in the summer)

They?re all just asking for it after all, funny though the news isn't full of men being attacked and raped all through the summer is it?

Wonder why that is???

MissAnnersley · 18/12/2011 12:42

Thank God - some sense on this thread. I was beginning to think I was losing my marbles.

JuliaScurr · 18/12/2011 12:43

yy Festive actually, young girls did complain of sexual assault, didn't they-the op's dds? Def. write to suggest ffurther training for all staff supervising kids on trips

KD0706 · 18/12/2011 12:46

Jeez as the mother of a DD (albeit only 19 months old at the moment) I am completely appalled, shocked and saddened by some of the comments on here.

In answer to the OP YANBU. It is completely wrong that your DD and her friend were sexually assaulted/harrassed in this way. And even worse that the teacher said it was their own fault for wearing skinny jeans and leggings. Wtf. But I do agree with those who say even if they had been wearing mini skirts there is still no excuse for some random man groping them in the street.

I live in leggings. Thankfully I have never been groped (other than occasionally by DH!!) but if I did I would be obviously upset and angry. And if somebody tried to suggest I deserved it because I was wearing leggings I'd be spitting feathers.

I think you should definitely write to the school. Our young girls (and boys) should not be being taught this 'asking for it' rape myth by anybody, and I think it's very sad that the young female teacher believes this and bloody appalling that she's passing it on to the next generation.