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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

about this woman r.e headscarfs?

231 replies

boatdeliah · 15/12/2011 21:32

Okay so this may be my 2nd AIBU in as many days but this happened today and really upset me. But I suddenly thought that maybe I was BU about what I did in response - that maybe I over-reacted.

I had to go into a meeting today for work with another company (a formal sort of meeting - in board room, suits, presentations etc). There was about 6 people in the room.

It was a long meeting and thoughout the first half (we had planned a tea break) the woman from the other company kept looking at me (she is new, I have never met her before and when we were introduced they said that she was a graduate on a training scheme and so had been invited into the meeting)

We break for tea and all stand around chatting as you do. I went to pour myself another drink and she approached me.

Anyway after all the hellos and all she looks around and then says slightly quieter - that she doesn't mean to offend me but me wearing a headscarf offends her and would I mind removing it.

Umm - No. I said that yes I would mind and that I found her request very odd.

We got on with the meeting and she was silent for the rest of it (and kept glancing at me)

When we got back to our office - I phoned up the person incharge of her in her dept (who couldn't be in meeting but whom I know very well). Then emailed that person - CC in their head of HR and the person in charge of graduate schemes in that company, Saying what had happened, what I had said, and what I thought of the request, inappropiateness of it. Basically making a complaint just not making it very formal.
On the phone her manager did ask if I wanted to make it a formal compalint - and I said I didn't want to make a snap decision and I would talk to her on monday, but thought I should raise it. (I do know this manager very very well and for a long time)

DH thinks I should just do whatever I feel is right on Monday.

But sitting hear tonight sans headscarf I've got thinking 'did I over do it?' - she's young and new and would have just an email to her manager been alright, and if this becomes something will i may have ruined something for her, she asked I said no - have I made a mountain out of a mole hill? this company could come down hard on this woman is taht fair because of something I have done?

(I wear a mitpachat/snood thing btw)

OP posts:
WidowWadman · 16/12/2011 11:51

Don't think you've done wrong - her request was offensive, and at the very least she should get some equality training - so that she stops behaving so idiotically at work.

nothingoldcanstay · 16/12/2011 11:53

Brilliant.I am going to wear my fur headscarf. Now that I know you won't all assume things about me.

wahwahwah · 16/12/2011 11:56

I think that fair comment would be if the clothes were offensive I.e. wearing low cut blouse in a ward full of breast cancer sufferers, or a t-shirt with FTP at a catholic school etc etc etc...

For goodness sake, my mum used to wear a headscarf or hat all the time when she went out. Ladies of a certain age always did, and it wasn't that long ago that a 'decent' woman in this country would not leave the house without her hair covered!

mummytime · 16/12/2011 11:56

nothing - if its fur head scarf I would assume you had a cold head? And maybe worry that you were ill (if worn inside). I would also assume it wasn't real fur, because no one does these days.

wahwahwah · 16/12/2011 11:57

Sorry but if it was real fur my Tourettes would kick in.

knittedbreast · 16/12/2011 11:59

wearing fur is disgusting. unless you live somewhere really really cold, and you need to.

wahwahwah · 16/12/2011 12:06

'their is just no need for that!' I shout. Sometimes with a few expletives added for good measure. I can't help it. It is a syndrome.

wahwahwah · 16/12/2011 12:07

Predictive bloody text... There there there

WidowWadman · 16/12/2011 12:38

Seeing as fake fur is a) ubiquitus and b) often very realistic, I wouldn't dream of challenging anyone about a furry item and think anyone who does must be slightly mad.

Also, I own a vintage fur scarf which I inherited from my grandma - the animal in question died 80 years ago - chucking the scarf wouldn't make it come alive anymore, and so it's still getting some use even 80 years on (and it looks gorgeous). Would never buy real fur new, though.

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 16/12/2011 12:57

Why would you shout at someone wearing a fur scarf but not a leather jacket?

quirrelquarrel · 16/12/2011 14:57

What a bloody rude thing to do!

And I doubt she really finds it offensive- she probably just doesn't agree with it or looks down on people who wear it and she's kidding herself that she's offended by it to make herself seem more reasonable. In reality she's too self-important and silly to take notice of.

And, like the gospel according to Miranda says- just because you say "no offense" doesn't make it all right!

TheScaryJessie · 16/12/2011 15:10

I find the concept that women must either conceal, or reveal their hair, for other people, misogynistic.

It's your hair. You can cover it, or not cover it, as you so choose, and I myself, as a staunch atheist, would formally complain about her behaviour.

BubbleBobble · 16/12/2011 17:34

wahwahwah, I'm a breast cancer 'sufferer' and I honestly don't find women wearing low cut tops offensive. To be honest, seeing boobs on display is such a common thing now, I genuinely don't notice or care.

I am dying for someone to comment on my scarf. I actually wear hijabs quite often and I tie them in a variety of ways, because I think they are much more attractive than the scarfs/hats peddled as cancer/chemo headgear. Hijabs are much cheaper too, therefore I can have lots and lots of them to go with every outfit I own. Grin

wahwahwah · 16/12/2011 23:59

Sorry to hear about that Bobble. I was just grasping for examples there and failing miserably to find a sensible one!

wahwahwah · 17/12/2011 00:08

I more of mumble inwardly... I am too 'english' to actually offend anyone! Possibl a paddington bear hard stare if its one of these very shaggy ankle length ones which look like they came off a very pretty animal. Dont like leather much either and refused to wear it for years in my 'yoof'. Really don't like fur though. Probably more to do with my big sister chasing me with a six-legged fox fur when I was a toddler. It had claws and mad glass eyes and plastic, snarling teeth. And she used to push me into my grandmas wardrobe which was full of the bloody things. Oh the flashbacks! Persian lamb, shudder. And the mystery of my vegetarianism deepens...

xyfactor · 17/12/2011 00:30

We must all assimilate and fit in with the grey people and blend into the detritus of society (Or so some people say)
Complain complain and complain again OP.

nothingoldcanstay · 17/12/2011 00:57

It just strikes me as odd that an item of clothing can be judged by such double standards. If linked to something unpopular say fur or looking like a tart you can say what you want.
Showing alliance to a cause because it's religious is OK.
I'm not saying don't have a headscarf , I'm saying you can't pick and chose what's offensive.

TroublesomeEx · 17/12/2011 08:28

Fur is often removed whilst animal is still alive. Leather isn't.

TroublesomeEx · 17/12/2011 08:29

Leather is a by product and fur isn't.

FlangelinaBallerina · 17/12/2011 09:07

We do not have a right not to be offended by the clothes of others, so the woman was being unreasonable.

However, it's perfectly reasonable and legitimate to be offended by headscarves, and the fact that they represent requirements imposed on women that are not imposed on men. I'm completely baffled that so many on this thread seem unable to have even considered that possibility. I appreciate that many women cover voluntarily, and that they do it because they think God is telling them to, but that doesn't make it not offensive. Some have mentioned women's clothing and appearance being more political than men's, for want of a better word. That's true. I'd be no less offended by a man whose clothes indicated that he thought women were obliged to cover more of their bodies than men. Although I don't know if there's any clothing that would suggest this, except a slogan t-shirt or something.

Nonetheless, it is incumbent on all of us to put on our big girl pants and deal with it, if we're offended by someone's dress. We have no right not to be offended.

SantieMaggie · 17/12/2011 09:23

yanbu

doesnt the new equality act take things like this into account?

she def needs some diversity/equality training!

SantieMaggie · 17/12/2011 09:30

from my understanding this could be deemed as harrassment under the equality act 2010. you're right to complain about it and they should be grateful as you might save them problems in the future.

Onemorning · 17/12/2011 09:45

YANBU, OP. She was totally out of order, and you were right to complain.

Dawndonnathatchristmasiscoming · 17/12/2011 10:04

She was rude, offensive and arrogant. There are lots of people about who are rude, offensive and arrogant, many of them without ASDs. In fact, most people with an Autistic Spectrum Difference will have learnt the coping strategies by the time they've left university, necessary not to be seen in this light. Certainly nobody in my family would have done something like this.

giveitago · 17/12/2011 10:50

And this girl was on a graduate training scheme? Good grief is this the quality of our 'educated' people now.

OP - I find is shocking that she asks you remove something because she (diddums) finds it offensive. Her request was offensive. It's not illegal to wear a scarf and she needs to know that she doesn't get to tell people what they can and cannot wear in her presence.

You did the right thing in telling the company. Not great PR for them and hence she will need to learn how to act when representing her firm.

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