to think that this was ridiculous...

[MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates]

Sure he probably was lying. Maybe he wasn't and should have had the maturity to handle it differently, who knows, but for a random stranger to handle this KID in this way is horrific!

AIBU?

He was a right little toe-rag.
Some people want him to be counselled to death about empathy and how to be a valuable member of society (Which is probably what's happened to him up unto this point)
Throwing him off the train was cheaper and more effective.
And the lad learned a valuable lesson to boot.

He should have got off when he was asked. If he hadn't tried to get back on the train he wouldn't have been pushed back
Sorry he did the wrong thing and his actions had a consequence. He might not do it again. It's like when you see people kicking off when they are being arrested and complaining things are hurting. Maybe if you didn't commit the offence to start with and then try to argue/fight it wouldn't be as bad

The kid was in the wrong, but you see a lot of this Big Man shite in Scotland and it's just pathetic. There's a reason we have police and the reason is so that they can deal with this sort of stuff, not someone who is sitting on a train.

Do we really want to be in the sort of society where justice is meted out by the biggest person in the vicinity?

Or do we want to be the sort of society where hundreds of people are held up because of one arsey wee shite?

He wasn't hurt, he got his belongings back, he maybe had to phone mummy or daddy for a lift. Or maybe he had to, god forbid, use his own two feet.

Sorry, no sympathy.

Maybe in a lot of cases the "Big man" mentality is the right mentality.
Reading back I noticed someone mention the racist on the tram thread and on that thread there were a few posters highlighting the fact that a woman intervened and where was the men when they were needed?
Now one intervenes and he's been called a "Big man" in a derogatory way.
Cake and eat it?

Personally I don't want to live in a society where physical strength is used in place of justice, however much of a tit the person in the wrong is being.

And the police don't use heavy handed tactics protecting autocrats and their keepers?
This whole society we live in is governed by physical strength.
Anyone in Iraq will tell you that.
Anyone on any reclaim event will tell you that.
Throwing a gobshite off the train isn't the end of the world is it?

yellowraincoat maybe you need to change species in that case?

No, it's not the end of the world. That doesn't mean I like it happening though.

Yes, the police do use heavy-handed tactics sometimes. However, that is, at least on paper, governed to some extent.

I don't know what Iraq has to do with this situation. We are not in Iraq. We do not live in the same sort of society. Thank God.

What species do you suggest I change to, OldLady? Because as far as I can see, most species rely on physical strength as a means of asserting authority. The difference with humans is that we can analyse it.

We have systems in place that mean we don't need to fling people off trains. I'm not sure why those weren't used in this case.

It's heavy handed but the youngster was virtually challenging the ticket inspector to throw him off. He didn't exactly apologise or offer a reasonable explanation as to why he appeared to be trying to ride without paying. The ticket inspector had asked him repeatedly to leave the train. It wasn't like they punched him or slapped him.

I think you're probably not quite getting it yellowcoat.
We are affected by Iraq because we are (By force) subjugating people that don't want to conform....we are directly responsible for that.
And the police look like they have self arbitration and have no accountability so there are no rules governing them.
Let's just hope more of these mouthy little tosspots get that sort of treatment.

One of the reasons the kid was swearing and being arsey was because the ticket collector was not a big man. He was relying on that himself. I guarantee if he had been big, young and tough looking the kid would have watched his mouth.

I'm not sure what it is you think I'm not getting. No, I don't really get what you're trying to explain, because I don't see how bringing up Iraq or police accountability is helpful in this conversation. Maybe you could explain it again to my stupid self but you bringing it up looks to me like a straw man.

If you're trying to say that humans are, by nature, always going to use force or strength to exert their will, I don't agree.

Of course, you don't have to agree with me. It does mean I'll have to come to your house and punch you in the face. That happens in Scotland quite a lot too, due to the mentality displayed here.

You are still sort of disagreeing that the world is ordered by mainly physical force.
Iraq is about as distant in my mind as Scotland is but they still have events that affect me.
Nothing "Straw" about that.
If you've ever seen the coppers punch someones lights out without provocation you wouldn't assume that they are doing a public service and following orders nicely.
Our society is and always will be run by violent means.
Fortunately the social working attitude of some on our society will talk little thugs out of trees constantly.
And after they have been talked out of one tree they'll just go and climb another.
ASBO-rrific ehh?

Oh for the love of all things holy. What happened was exactly what should have happend to the gobby shite. He caused this in its entirity by fare dodging then acting like a proper little shit when caught. All of this 'poor diddums' crap is just pathetic. If he had any half decent reason for fare dodging he could have explained himself, he could have offered up his details or called someone to meet him at the other end and pay - or just bloody apologised instead of acting like a totally rude and ignorant little shit who thought he could get away with it because the train guy was older and not likely to manhandle him off the train and 'he knows his rights' claptrap.

He was manhandled off of the train. There was no body slamming on the clip and no violence.

The other guy called the bloke 'Big Man' first. 'Big Man' *asked' the train guy if he needed help and he asked him to remove him from the train.

These little gobshite are so fucking full of themselves and their 'rights' - the fear no one and nothing - it's why this country is going to hell in a handcart because it's all about that generations 'rights' and not about their 'responsibilites'.

Just because physical force is used a lot of time doesn't mean I have to agree with it, does it? Or are you suggesting that just because something happens and probably always will means I have to think it's ok.

I don't know why you keep bringing up Iraq and the police.

Some fat wanker flings a kid off a train. That kid then goes about being a wanker back to people to make himself feel better. Brilliant.

"Big man"
"Fat wanker"
Jesus wept.

Agree wholeheartedly with chipping.

I don't see what the big deal is. Makes a refreshing change to see one of these gobby, disrespectful teens / young adults being challenged and made to do as they're told for once.

ChippingInNeedsSleep said it all..... agree 100%

It looked like perfectly reasonable force to me. Good on the big man.

Agree with Chipping too. And as for "late teens is hardly an adult" well, yes it is, sorry. I cannot bear the MN fashion for making allowances and excuses for people well into their twenties because they're "young". 18, 19, 20 year olds up to 25 and 26 year olds I've seen theads on here, behave like children because they're allowed to.

You're 18, you're an adult. That's it. I don't know when people on here think that happens, 29? 30?

Does anyone know what the trains policy is regarding fare skippers?

If the "kid" had a legit reason for not paying his fare and apologized for trying to sneak on, explained and asked nicely to be allowed to ride this one time, I would have a little bit of sympathy for him. But instead he lied, swore, and refused to get off when asked to repeatedly. Also, he should not have to be throw off more than once, however, he tried to get back on.

I actually agree that the man was right to throw him off. Lots of comments on here make me feel really old as tbh I think it is people's attitudes that have led to a worsening of behaviour in public.

When I was young a kid would have behaved like this - but they would have been forcibly thrown off and 99% of people would have thought this was the right action.

Now we have to waste police time to deal with simple situations because of the idea that children and teenagers should be treated with kid gloves.

He wasn't a kid.
He hadn't paid.
He became verbally abusive.
He was holding everyone up by his refusal to leave the train.
He was removed from the train.
He tried to get back on again.
He was stopped from doing so.
Tough shit.

Get a grip bleeding hearts.

"would you all be so happy at this if it was your own teenage son or daughter 'getting what was coming to them'?"

Yes. If my DD or DS had behaved like this I would have been mortified. And I would have told them that if they were going to behave like this, they would have to accept that they might be treated like this - or worse. Bad behaviour has - or should have consequences.

And if I was on the train with young DCs I would prefer them to see that this badly behaved boy was dealt with, than that he continued to sit there swearing and being abusive while we waited hours for the police to attend - as some posters have suggested.