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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that this was ridiculous...

571 replies

MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates · 11/12/2011 23:17

Sure he probably was lying. Maybe he wasn't and should have had the maturity to handle it differently, who knows, but for a random stranger to handle this KID in this way is horrific!

AIBU?

OP posts:
Original poster
MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates · 11/12/2011 23:52

Anyway, I don't know why I am debating because I always do but I don't ever think anyone under any circumstances should take the law into their own hands and use violence (unless to protect yourself from actual harm). It is never OK.

The kid should be fined, and the bloke should be fined too.

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MixedBerries · 11/12/2011 23:53

MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates, there is such a thing as community responsibility. I find it sad that, for example, we're used to seeing adults too scared to break up a fight between kids for fear of litigation/outrage/reciprocal violence. They'd prefer we all wait the 3 hours it takes for the police to turn up who then class it as a non crime so it's not counted in the statistics. As a result, people think they can get away with anything and behaving like a complete arse and that no-one will ever challenge them.

SantasBumCheeks · 11/12/2011 23:54

Judging by the comment from someone who alleges to be "Sam's Dad" on YouTube (had my sound turned off, but I assume the kid is called Sam), he's a chip off the old block, thinks he can do what he likes with impunity.

Name and address of the "hero" PLEASE

Sam's Dad. I'll find the prick anyway, but would appreciate a quick justice.

squeakytoy · 11/12/2011 23:54

Is there anywhere that says how old this person is? Having watched that video he could be anything from 15 to 25...

crazycrackernanna · 11/12/2011 23:56

MixedBerries but this was not a case of stepping in to stop a fight and fearing litigation....it was a case of assault and sod the litigation.

The kid had no respect for authority...but the adult had no respect for the law.

Who is worse?

jasper · 11/12/2011 23:56

if one of my kids EVER did what that rude nasty little gobshite of a teenager did I would be DELIGHTED if a member of the public intervened the way that one did.

Original poster
MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates · 11/12/2011 23:57

You can not PROVE the kid was lying. (Though I suspect he was)

Has anyone thought you don't know what was happening to the kid? For all anyone knows he could have been mugged, had nothing to get home when he was a long way away, no phone, no money, was shit scared, and was terrified that the train wouldn't let him on? Then terrified that they wouldn't let him stay and was reacting in whatever panic he was in.

We can not prove he was lying, we don't know his situation, but we DO know for sure that 'big cock man' assaulted him.

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LineRunnerCrouchingReindeer · 11/12/2011 23:59

The clip starts out with the conductor saying 'No money?'

So the young man had been offered the chance to pay.

The young man then starts swearing.

The conversation then enters the well-worn dialogue whereby someone has to budge - either the fare-dodger leaves the train or it and everyone else is held up for possibly an hour while the police arrive - or the conductor just ignores the fare dodger, which he is not allowed to do.

Meanwhile members of the public who are sick of this crap that they see day in day out, and who just want to get home, are looking on and hearing, 'I can sit here all night, I'm getting paid for this, it's the public who are getting annoyed.' And the young man replying 'F*.'

Another man threw the young man's bag onto the platform next to him. The young man was oblivious to this, though.

MixedBerries · 11/12/2011 23:59

crazycrackernanna, I was just citing that as a more common example. I do not think that what I saw on the video was assault. He handled him roughly but I really don't think that would stand up as assault in a court. How do you think the police were going to get him off, had they been called? In exactly the same way!

startail · 11/12/2011 23:59

The guard is a elderly chap doing his job and the teen was being a total shit.
Even when he's been thrown off the train he still thinks he has the right to get back on.
Sadly I'm sure the chap will get in trouble and the teen will gloat and carry on being a brat until he ends up in jail costing us money.

SixFeetUnder · 12/12/2011 00:00

I would say he looked like a teenager but you're right squeaky, we don't actually know.

I'm not sure that makes a difference though, he was obviously quite a young man, don't think the 'big man' would have been quite so quick to throw off a, equally matched 'big man'.

Or as I said previously, an elderly man (or at least I hope not).

WorraLiberty · 12/12/2011 00:00

So Worra, we should take the law into our own hands in case someone else does with more violence?

No, we should make sure little obnoxious shits don't get away with fare dodging and disrespecting authority.

The schools can't seem to do it any more, a lot of parents think the sun shines out of their backsides and kick up the mother of all fights with the teachers if they so much as give their kids a detention. The Police have enough to deal with and even if they do manage to charge them...some bleeding heart will ensure a court gives bugger all in the way of punishment.

I think this young man learned a valuable lesson here and if anything he should be grateful.

He may even look back in a few years and realise why he was ejected from the train in that manner but I'm not holding my breath.....

NotnOtter · 12/12/2011 00:01

afaic the kid was in the wrong - he should've been chucked off - should've had the respect and humility to get off himself not shout and swear

crazycrackernanna · 12/12/2011 00:01

The Police have training and the authority to remove people physically MixedBerries.

I didn't see Big knob Man's warrant card at all being produced...just saw a thug.

mockingjay · 12/12/2011 00:02

Really SixFeetUnder, your concern would be that your 'child' (almost adult!) was thrown off the train?? I would be far more worried about HIS/HER behaviour.

WorraLiberty · 12/12/2011 00:02

Has anyone thought you don't know what was happening to the kid? For all anyone knows he could have been mugged, had nothing to get home when he was a long way away, no phone, no money, was shit scared, and was terrified that the train wouldn't let him on? Then terrified that they wouldn't let him stay and was reacting in whatever panic he was in

Ohh purrrlease Hmm

And he didn't think to mention it amongst the abuse he was giving his elder?

perfumedlife · 12/12/2011 00:03

A normal response to having no money would be to admit as much and accept the fine or call your parents from your mobile thats surgically attached to your hand usually. A law abiding, respectfull kidult would not tell the inspector to fuck off, as if he was the one in the wrong.

When will liberal parents make the connection that their parenting strategies don't bloody work? This boy's dad is already promising to wreak revenge. What example is he setting?

MixedBerries · 12/12/2011 00:03

I see your point, crazy, but still think the man was acting within reason and that was not a case of assault.

Original poster
MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates · 12/12/2011 00:05

I think it's a bit of a stretch Worra but you can't be sure. The kid may well have learned a lesson, hopefully he did, but it was not the man's right to give him a lesson or in such a violent manner.

OP posts:
Original poster
MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates · 12/12/2011 00:06

People have shown in the comments that this is unlikely to actually be the kid's dad.

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mockingjay · 12/12/2011 00:07

well if that's what happened Melted, maybe the lesson was that you communicate better and without swearing!!

squeakytoy · 12/12/2011 00:09

He wasnt punched, he was manhandled off the train. I would like to hope that in future he may think twice before fare dodging, but I very much doubt he will.

MixedBerries · 12/12/2011 00:09

Thinking about it, crazy, I reckon a member of the public dealing with an obviously obnoxious kid/teen/youth who, as well as being obnoxious and breaking the law, is causing a massive hold up for over a hundred people on a train, does have the authority to manhandle the kid/teen/youth off the train.

Original poster
MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates · 12/12/2011 00:11

'Big Man' is also obnoxious and breaking the law MixedB, maybe HE should be thrown off too

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SixFeetUnder · 12/12/2011 00:11

I wouldn't be concerned at all at them being asked to leave the train or it being dealt with under procedure and would certainly have something to say about their behaviour.

I would have been very angry with them actually for them whole thing, swearing at the conductor, being in the situation where they didn't have enough money and causing a whole load of hassle to the other commuters.

But no-one else should have got involved, the boy was body slammed onto the platform and that is wrong.

To me the issue isn't how old the person is or isn't - for example - would it have been OK if it were the mother with young kids being asked to leave the train? If it had been a teenage girl the man threw off?

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