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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that this was ridiculous...

571 replies

MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates · 11/12/2011 23:17

Sure he probably was lying. Maybe he wasn't and should have had the maturity to handle it differently, who knows, but for a random stranger to handle this KID in this way is horrific!

AIBU?

OP posts:
MixedBerries · 12/12/2011 00:11

I don't think Big Man is breaking the law.

mockingjay · 12/12/2011 00:14

I can't see the part where he's body slammed onto the platform, I can only see him being pushed. If he was body slammed then I agree that is completely unnecessary and horrible. But just being pushed off the train, no problem.

SixFeetUnder · 12/12/2011 00:16

When he tries to get back on the train the man pushes him hard to the ground and a woman behind him even says ' there's no need for that'.

I agree

WorraLiberty · 12/12/2011 00:16

Sorry but where did this 'violence' take place cos I didn't see any in that video.

He was taken off the train...he was off the train...he (being an obnoxious little shit) decided to try to get back on the train and was pushed so he couldn't gain entry to a train he hadn't paid to be on.

Big deal...he's probably had more 'force' used on him during a school PE lesson.

JoInScotland · 12/12/2011 00:18

I doubt very much he was a "kid". 16 is old enough to marry, sign legal documents, etc in Scotland - I did Scots law. I note one previous poster wrote:

i noticed the family with young kids on the train, i wouldnt want my kid to see that. he could have just carried him off withought throwing him surely?

I wouldn't want my child to witness some young adult 1) lying 2) getting arsey and swearing when caught out in a lie 3) showing no respect for a man who was doing his job and well, I could go on. It wasn't great the way he was manhandled, but the Yoof needed to get off the train. Everyone else had a right to get to their destination on time. I enjoy the idea of making everyone wait for god knows how long on a cold December evening for the police to come and sort out the situation, and I used to be a Special Constable.

Sorry, but the onus for behaving responsibly and paying for things in life rested with the young man who was fare dodging.

SixFeetUnder · 12/12/2011 00:21

I do agree with some these points but bed is calling.

My points are being ignored though and it seems like this was only OK because it was a younger, less strong man.

auntyfash · 12/12/2011 00:24

Once he knew the lad didn't have any money he should have asked for him to phone ahead to see if anyone could bring the money to the station he would be getting off at, if he couldn't do that, then he should have taken his name and address (they have computers linked into the police to check details are correct) and sent him a bill for the amount. No need at all for it to have got that far.

FannyFifer · 12/12/2011 00:26

Aye, you widnae want to mess with us Fifers. Wink
A wee shite holding up the train and verbally abusing an elderly man got thrown off, don't see the problem.

mockingjay · 12/12/2011 00:27

well i don't think the boy would have responded to reasonable options. the ticket guy got told to fuck off just for asking for his ticket. if he asked him for his name/address, i very much doubt the boy would have said 'yes sir, it's x'!

mockingjay · 12/12/2011 00:29

I really think he voided all helpful/more reasonable responses when he told the conductor to fuck off. really, the conductor is expected to go out of his way to help someone after being spoken to like that? not a chance.

UnexpectedOrangeInMyStocking · 12/12/2011 00:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Feminine · 12/12/2011 00:30

Its a shame that any of it had to happen.

All too often these days...

mockingjay · 12/12/2011 00:30

Good idea UnexpectedOrange!

SebastionTheCrab · 12/12/2011 00:37

It's a tough one. It does make very uncomfortable viewing. But as others have said other people's lives should not have to come to a stop while we must always pussyfoot around ''me me me'' little shits like this kid.
I feel most sorry for the poor ol' guy that works as the ticket inspector. Not a nice job at any time but especially at his age and dealing with gits like this boy.

perfumedlife · 12/12/2011 00:38

Sixfeetunder if it had been a middle aged woman with kids, absolutely she should have been put off for abusing the elderly conductor. He has a right to feel safe and unthreatened in his work. The violence I can't see clearly, although I think it looked worryingly like the self appointed big man was beginning to enjoy it. See it all too often in Scotland sadly.

Surely the point is, if he had just got off, or politely asked for help in arranging payment, no passengers would become riled enough to help eject him? I know, had I been there, I would have felt sorry for a reasonably polite with no fare and gave him it. Edinburgh to Polmont, it's not a lot of money. I can imagine hearing him swear and get all tough guy would have enraged me enough to want to defend the inspector and maybe cart him off. The big guy did ask if the inspector needed help and was told yes, help to get him off the train.

Original poster
MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates · 12/12/2011 00:44

No that is not the point perfumed. I don't think anyone has said that the boy wasn't in the wrong or that he should not be punished. Of course he should. The point is this man's response. It was not his place. He is clearly seen body slamming at the end of the video.

He shouldn't have offered help, the conductor shouldn't have accepted and the man shouldn't have gone through with it like he did.

The boy tried to get back on the train because he hadn't seen his stuff being thrown off. he shouted that he had left stuff on the train. He knew at this point that he wasn't gonna stay on.

Anyway, I have said my bit and more

Bed time, night folks!

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 12/12/2011 00:51

He shouldn't have offered help, the conductor shouldn't have accepted and the man shouldn't have gone through with it like he did

And that attitude imo is why even a simple bus ride where I live (London Borough) is more often than not an unpleasant one, fraught with kids thinking they can do whatever they please because no-one can touch them.

He shouldn't have offered to help an old man doing his job and being abused for it, while possibly hundreds of passengers were put out due to a teenager being an obnoxious shit??

I sincerely hope you never need a member of the public to come to your aid, because if you ever find yourself in an abusive situation like the old man did...you'll be fucked if you have to wait for the police while everyone else buries their head and pretends it's not happening OP.

perfumedlife · 12/12/2011 01:00

OP it very much is the point. How you can miss that point bemuses me. If the teen had behaved in the socially acceptable way, none of this would have happened and we would not be discussing this. Why didn't he behave in a law abiding way, firstly by not boarding a train without a ticket, secondly by not swearing at the inspector and refusing to leave?

I'll tell you why I think he did this. Because he can, and we are all tied up in red tape and fear and too hamstrung to do anything about it so he relaxed into the 'fuck you' scenario we see on film. I can only imagine what kind of pampered parenting he's grown up with.

Morloth · 12/12/2011 01:06

Ah well this is the sort of thing you risk when you act like a gobby little snot.

The moral of the story is 'don't be gobby little snot', or someone bigger an meaner may put you on your arse.

Welcome to reality.

hohohoshedittant · 12/12/2011 01:09
  1. He isn't a kid.
  1. To all the people saying 'just call the police', how long do you think the police would have taken to get there? Is it really a good use of police time? What do you think would have happened to him once the police came and got him of the train? A £20 fine that he wouldn't pay probably. I really doubt it would have been anything that would have taught him not to do it again.

Having said that, it was uncomfortable viewing and it is a shame that we've got to the point where that needed to happen at all. The cheering was really unecessary.

TBH though I am going to lose sleep wondering if the poor little lad is ok? No.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourMincePies · 12/12/2011 01:12

"The boy probably would have left the train if the conductor had radioed for the police anyway, he wouldn't want to hang about and get arrested"

"On the other hand he might have continued to not give a shit..."

In which case he would have still been there to be removed by the police, who do have the training and authority to get him safely off the train without harming any other passengers. The BigMan pushed him into a woman or bashed her himself and put her, her kids and other people at risk.

I just cannot agree that the appropriate response to a mouthy teenager and some inconvenienced passengers is adult violence. If the teenager had been violent towards the conductor or other passengers first then that would be a different story but he wasn't. No violence took place until BigMan stepped in. It wasn't a violent situation until that point. The abuse to the conductor was awful but he wasn't being harmed and so waiting for the police was a better option that creating a violent situation.

You can see BigMan haul him back onto his feet on the train even though you don't see him on the floor, and this is when the seated woman with the kids pushes at BigMan to get him off her. You see the boy get back up from the platform and he's obviously been on the floor, then he tries to get back on the train (for his bag?) and is shoved to the ground again. I would call that violence if it happened to me, if someone grabbed me and dragged me and pushed me down onto the ground three times and flung their arm out into my neck to stop me getting back on the train, even if I was being a total cow, I would call it violence. My bad attitude wouldn't void their violence even if most people felt the violence was justified. It would still be violence.

I don't know how many stops there are between Edinburgh and Pol-whatsit but if the conductor didn't want to delay the train he could perhaps radio ahead to the next station and ask for the police to be waiting there for the boy.

MrsTerryPratchett · 12/12/2011 01:12

WorraLiberty, I have also spent lots of time on London public transport with spitting, swearing, littering, violent young people. It is stressful and sometimes frightening particularly when DD is there.

When you are on the Addington tram you wish for someone to do something. This man did. Not nice and I am normally pretty right on and leftie but in Croydon it is every bus, train and tram. The police are busy.

perfumedlife · 12/12/2011 01:12

Well said hohoho. He is old enough to take the train, he is old enough to comply with the rules like everyone else.

It is uncomfortable viewing. I despise violence, I do think the big guy was a bit too into it, and the clapping was awful. But these people didn't cause this.

hohohoshedittant · 12/12/2011 01:13

'To me the issue isn't how old the person is or isn't - for example - would it have been OK if it were the mother with young kids being asked to leave the train? If it had been a teenage girl the man threw off?'

For me;

mother with young kids - No matter how rude someone is, if they have children with them you need to deal with them in the way that is best for the children.

teenage girl - I'd feel exactly the same as I do about the teenage boy

OldLadyKnowsSantaClaus · 12/12/2011 01:33

I've watched the video several times, and cannot see any "body slamming". I do see an arsey wee fucker, of the variety that causes so much distress and upset to others on public transport, attempting to punch the Big Man and falling over his own feet, grabbing the coat of the woman with kids on his way down.

I have to agree that violence is Bad and all that, but had I been on the train, on a Friday not long before Xmas, after dark, probably tired and just wanting to get home, I'd have cheered too.