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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that this boy's mother was wrong to let him go to school wearing a dress.

228 replies

uglypotato · 22/11/2011 21:39

Boy A is 4, in reception. Likes wearing dresses and skirts. I think that's fair enough and I have a tutu and several lovely swishy cloaks in the dressing up box for my DSs (Y2 and YR) too. Who doesn't?

But A's mum bought him a school dress, and let him go to school in it. While I think the world should be a caring, tolerant place where no-one bats an eyelid at this sort of thing, it's not. In reality, small children will laugh and tease. Other infants may look small to us, but to 4yo boys they are life-size and can be terrifying. And they will remember that A went to school in a dress and label him.

I can see that this is fine for a 10yo say, who feels that they're in the wrong gender body. At this age, peers can think things through, empathise and accept. But not a 4yo who likes dressing up. He's just meat for bullies now, surely?

A's mum is very nice, and I'm sure if the world was full of people like her, it would be a great place to live: she has a generous, open personality and is very kind and friendly. But she seems to have set her son up for bullying. He's seen as a bit of a loner by others in our kids' class and this hasn't made him more popular. Now she's marked her and her son out as odd in the eyes of the mothers at the school. I want to live in a world where it's ok to send your son to school in girl's uniform, but I don't think that's reality. AIBU?

OP posts:
musicmalady · 23/11/2011 00:25

why on earth would you let a 4 yr old boy go to school in a girl's uniform dressConfused
poor boy his mother will have made him a laughing stock.

JinglePosyPerkin · 23/11/2011 00:32

Rightly or wrongly from this point forwards that little lad will be know as "the one who wears the dress". At 4, this may well be more on a parents level (i.e. Parent 1: Brian's having a party? Which one's Brian? Parent 2: The one who wears the dress.) As he gets older though, his peers will remember & start calling him that themselves (along with other, crueler things quite possibly). Both of my DSs remember things that other children did during Nursery & Reception class and I really don't think their memories are that exceptional Confused.

Of course bullying/name calling is wrong and, if it happens, the bullies should be dealt with over this issue just the same as if they were bullying the child about being short, tall, fat, thin, clever etc. I still wouldn't set my (male) child up for bullying by allowing him to wear a dress to school though.

If it turns out that the boy has a real gender issue as he grows older and starts to live life as a girl then that would be an entirely different matter.

JinglePosyPerkin · 23/11/2011 00:37

Worra I agree. And I'm not so sure that 4 year olds don't notice either - DS2 still remembers that one of his friends wore yellow socks to school every day during Nursery year - when they were 3. I'm pretty sure he'd have noticed a dress Confused.

Penelope1980 · 23/11/2011 02:33

yabu. Based on your reasoning all red haired kids should dye their hair in case they get bullied, and kids be encouraged not to wear glasses or braces for the same reason.

gypsycat · 23/11/2011 05:50

I can't remember what me or my peers wore to school at age 4, especially not clearly enough to make fun of them about it at a later age. I really don't think kids that age pay that much attention to these things, and if they do and are bullying at the age of 4, there's far more serious things going on with them then there is with the boy wearing a dress.

exoticfruits · 23/11/2011 07:27

Firstly if the mother had the uniform list she would see that it is headed boys and girls quite clearly and it isn't the same.

Secondly, having taught a lot of 4 yr olds on supply, I can tell you that they do pay attention.
It was unfair of the mother to send him like that. It isn't a question of bullying-it is just setting aside as odd. All the older DCs will be saying 'have you seen that kid in a dress?' and they will be going to have a look. They will never forget.

runningwilde · 23/11/2011 08:00

Don't they have a uniform policy? This is the only reason it should be wrong, because kids need to adhere to the uniform policy. It is such a shame we live in a world where 'set' ideas of clothes are forced upon people. People should be able to wear what they like really.

FredFredGeorge · 23/11/2011 08:02

Firstly if the mother had the uniform list she would see that it is headed boys and girls quite clearly and it isn't the same.

But the uniform policy cannot say that... discriminate, "Schools must not discriminate on the grounds of gender, ..." (no specific law on school uniforms of course, just general quality laws)

Bloodymary · 23/11/2011 08:06

Well clearly the school did not approve as the OP said that they changed him into a PE shirt and spare trousers during registration.

For that reason alone I would not send him in a dress.

exoticfruits · 23/11/2011 08:13

Of course people should wear what they like, but they will be set aside as odd. I could walk down to my supermarket now in whatever strange combination of clothes I wish but people will look at me and they will avoid.

DCs are deeply conservative and they don't know what to make of it. The couple in Canada who are raising a non gender DC let their older boy wear a dress. The little girls didn't want to play with , to quote, 'the boy-girl'. No one teaches them this, we befriend those we are comfortable with.

I don't think that a 4 yr old would get bullied, but he would be written down as odd-for the rest of his days at that school. It is unfair to put your philosophies before the DC. I would want my DCs to fit in with their peers.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 23/11/2011 08:13

You know, the same comments were made to my brother's best mate's mum. She only told him and us about them after we were grown up. We live in a small village and she was told 'why send him to that school, if you put him on the bus to [bigger village], he won't be bullied. He won't be the only black child'. She chose to ignore that and sent him to the same school as us - and expected other parents not to make a fuss about it. People did not go around referring to 'the black kid' (as you say they would automatically refer to 'the boy in the dress'). I don't remember us ever having to be told not to, since none of our parents did. We knew damn well it was rude to single someone out by their appearance, though.

Is this really so hard?

exoticfruits · 23/11/2011 08:15

I don't think that is any way similar LRD.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 23/11/2011 08:16

You know, the same comments were made to my brother's best mate's mum. She only told him and us about them after we were grown up. We live in a small village and she was told 'why send him to that school, if you put him on the bus to [bigger village], he won't be bullied. He won't be the only black child'. She chose to ignore that and sent him to the same school as us - and expected other parents not to make a fuss about it. People did not go around referring to 'the black kid' (as you say they would automatically refer to 'the boy in the dress'). I don't remember us ever having to be told not to, since none of our parents did. We knew damn well it was rude to single someone out by their appearance, though.

Is this really so hard?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 23/11/2011 08:17

Sorry, double posted somehow.

How is it not similar?

Bunbaker · 23/11/2011 08:17

"I agree with the OP. Yes in an ideal world children should be able to wear what they want, but children even small ones notice differences and so do adults.

Will every parent when asked by their small child why X is wearing a dress to class be able to come up with the appropriate PC answer, and when a small proportion of them don't and the children come in repeating what the parent has said, what action will the school take to handle it?

Yes schools should of course have an anti bullying policy, but allowing your DS to wear a dress to school feels like social suicide for the boy."

I agree. What should happen and what could happen are two entirely different things. Not everyone is as PC as most of the mnetters on here, and I agree that it is the comments that the children will hear at home from their parents that will influence them. Plus, the older children will single him out. I think some of the posters on here see the world in a too idealistic way.

I understand where the OP is coming from because my mother was the type that didn't care what other people thought. I wore some strange clothes, my sister and I have unusual names, we didn't have a TV, never listened to pop music etc. It just made us "different" and we were desperate not to be different. As a result I let my daughter (within reason) be one of the crowd as she doesn't want to be "different"

exoticfruits · 23/11/2011 08:21

Having done a lot of supply in a lot of schools I can tell you that DCs wouldn't even register the colour of the DC or the fact they wore glasses or had red hair etc and if they were asked about it they would look surprised because those are characteristics of the DC that can't be changed.
However the boy in a dress would be looked at by all.Even if they were polite enough not to comment they would whisper 'have you seen the kid in the dress?' and they would be very wary. You can dislike it all you like, be as depressed as you like, but that is what would happen in any school. (and the mother would be written down as someone to avoid)
The teacher could do PHSE on 'being different' or similar but it isn't going to stop the DCs thinking it is odd.

Strawbezza · 23/11/2011 08:23

YANBU. The mother was wrong. Thank goodness the school got him to change. Poor boy would've been teased and laughed at through no fault of his own.

tryingtoleave · 23/11/2011 08:24

My two year old dd would notice and comment on a boy in a dress - gender identification is an important part of socialization. A parent's job is to socialize their child as well as to encourage them to express themselves - to find an appropriate balance between the two.

My ds was attracted to girl's clothes, as I think many boys are, because they are brighter and more interesting. As other posters have said, we didn't dress him in girls clothes but tried to find boys clothes that were pink or bright or otherwise appealing. Now he is five and sometimes says it is unfair that girls get better clothes but there is no way he would wear them, because he knows it is not appropriate. Just like I might envy men's clothes for their comfort and practicality but I don't want to wear them.

bananamam · 23/11/2011 08:24

"in an ideal world".....-ah this phrase!!! In an ideal world he would be able to wear the dress....

If we start telling them it's wrong, he will get bullied etc, we are laying down these gender stereotypes at such an early age. My DS is the same as a lot here, he has a younger sister and he loves to use her dress up clothes. At nursery last year, age 4 he dressed up as a princess with all the other girls. The staff told me all about it and none of the other kids batted an eye. This is how it should be. Kids don't bat an eye at things unless for some reason, they have been told its "wrong".

I don't think it's a tough one YABU, it's non of your business. If any child "bullies" this child, then I'd look to the parents and their prejudices. As I don't believe children of four can bully. They may laugh at something different but they are the perfect age and very open minded to change and differences, if explained to them.

Obviously it's not this black and white, but "in an ideal world"...

exoticfruits · 23/11/2011 08:25

I agree bunbaker-I had a mother who thought you should be strong enough to be different which made me very, very grateful for school uniform. I always wanted to fit in and not stand out. Most DCs want to fit in with peers. I have always let my DSs fit in.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 23/11/2011 08:25

exotic - does it not occur to you tehre might be reasons why a boy in a dress is seen as strange but a child's colour no longer is? The reason is that we no longer accept bullying and discrimination about these other things.

Or is it ok to expect bullying for a choice a four year old's parents let him make?

Btw I think this is very different from parents choosing to raise a child without reference to gender, which I'm much more unsure about.

exoticfruits · 23/11/2011 08:26

Of course DCs can 'dress up' as anything-we are not talking about that.

exoticfruits · 23/11/2011 08:30

You can do what you like LRD.As a mother I want my DSs to fit in, be sociable and have friends and so if they want to wear a dress to school (which hasn't cropped up) I would show them the list-headed boys and girls.
Do you really think that I can go down to the supermarket in whatever I want to wear-however bizarre and people will look at me beyond the clothes? Hmm Some people love to stand out and shock-I am not one of them!

tryingtoleave · 23/11/2011 08:32

I think it is also what children are accustomed to. My dcs had never commented on Asian children or described them as such because they had always seen lots of Asians. The first time they saw an African, however, they were fascinated and kept talking about it.

If children have never seen a boy in a dress they will comment.

AKMD · 23/11/2011 08:42

YANBU, she is projecting her oh-so liberal values onto her son and letting him take the consequences without fully understanding what they are. My son is 1 and always goes for the pink sparkly shoes but I buy him a pair from the boys' section. Of course the sparkly ones are much more attractive to a toddler but they are not appropriate for a boy in this society.