to say this to a child?

[MarieFromStMoritz]

OK, my DS is being regularly beaten up by a boy in his year. My DS is 6 years old and the other child is about the same. I have spoken to the teacher about it, and she spoke to the child. We thought that would be the end of it. However, my DS came home on Thursday and told us that not only had this child done it again, but he was getting other children to hit him, too. I asked DH where the teacher was, and he said that she was talking to some other children, so didn't see. He said he then went to speak to her but she was busy talking to other people, and then the bell went.

So, I have been seething about this all weekend. My DS is a delightful little boy and wants to be friends with everyone. I love him so much and cannot bear the thought of anybody hurting him.

So, this morning I asked DS to point out this child, which he did. I went over to the child with my DS so that he knew who I was. I bent down to the child's level, pointed my finger an inch from his face, and said: "if you ever hurt my son again, there will be trouble. Do you understand me?" The child's lip started quivering and he walked away.

I was stood in the playground for a while to keep an eye on things, and this child kept looking at me. It occurred to me afterwards that as I was wearing sunglasses, he could not see whether or not I was looking at him. He looked a bit intimidated and afterwards I felt quite bad.

My job is to protect my child, non? But why do I feel so bad? And WIBU? Thanks.

God this is painful!
I admire your tenancity SoupDragon

My daughter got a bollocking like this off another kids mother in the playground for hitting him and shouting at him when she was about the same age. School got involved and poor daughter got severely reprimanded because she admitted that she had hit him and did it because she didn't like him.

She is autistic (undiagnosed at the time) and that's the best way she could explain what was going on. Over the next year or so, bit by bit, it came out that this boy had been tormenting her mercilessly every single day. He was the reason she kept losing her jumpers, her pencils, her bookbags etc. She'd hit him on the day when they were making father's day cards. She'd made one for her grandad. He spent playtime chanting at her that she was a retard with no dad. So she hit him. All the shouting at him was to try and get her stuff back or to get him to leave her alone.

As someone previously said in this thread, the adults who dealt with the hitting made the situation worse for a particularly vulnerable child.

Klad that makes me want to hit him.

That's horrid Kladkaka.
Your child was being bullied and nobody spotted it.
Were you aware of it at all?
Had you complained to the school.

Before I spoke to my son's teacher, I said to him, this had better be the whole truth because if you're lying or are otherwise starting trouble, if I go in and defend you, I will look ridiculous and people will find it difficult to believe you in the future.

When it happened to my son, I spoke to the 'other' boy's mum in front on him, politely, and kindly (but firmly). The 'other' boy's face said that gentle but firm words were enough. I refuse to refer to him as a little twat, a bully, a thug or any other word that is innappropriate for a SIX YEAR OLD child, even though I did mutter those expressions to myself.

I get the anger, the hurt, the worry and the feeling of helplessness, but that does not mean an adult can cross the line of appropriate behaviour.

A few weeks later, when my son asked if the other boy could come to tea, I made a point of speaking (in a friendly way) to the other boy. I asked him if he'd like to come, he said yes, I asked him if I needed to worry about anymore nasty behaviour, he said no. Hey ho, the little twat and my son are now best friends, the little thug is actually a very sweet child who simply didn't know how to handle MY son when MY son was being annoying. The little shit is a lovely boy, his mother a good one. MY son is happy, he has a firm friend, he doesn't get bullied and other children will happily play with him without fear of threat from a big grown up.

I have to wonder whether the end of this particular chapter would have had such a positive outcome if I'd threatened the other boy.

Either way, moral highground retained, problem resolved.

No, nobody spotted it. Eventually I became aware of it and complained and complained and complained. Eventually the head told me that she felt it was my daughter's own fault . That, having watched what was going on, it all stemmed from her wanting to join in with the other kids and 'trying too hard to make friends' and that if she stopped and left the other kids alone, they wouldn't feel the need to be mean to her. I removed her from the school after that.

Yes, thanks. She's 18 now, has a diagnosis and is at a school with a class who have had autism awareness training and who go out of their way to make sure she is included. How about your daughter?

Bamboo - I'm intrigued. You agree with Klad that her situation was horrible. Obviously it was. And part of what made it horrible was an adult wading in and having a go at Klad's dd without first getting all the facts. In fact, she'd been told by her son pretty much what the OP was told - that child hit me. And she reacted the same way OP did, and Klad's little girl bore the brunt of being unfairly accused, because the other mother couldn't see that just maybe her son had some role to play.

And yet you are congratulating the OP on her behaviour saying it is ridiculous that people thought she was being heavy handed.

I'm confused.

What people are saying is NOT that children should never be told off, that there should be no limits etc.

But that you need to excercise a bit of common sense and make sure you have full possesion of the facts, especially since you have not seen any incidents yourself. Which, interestingly, is kind of what you said you did yourself (by telling your child he better be telling you the truth). And is what the OP did not do, which is why I think that her reaction to it was not acceptable.

YANBU!!! You told the teacher, they spoke to the child and nothing happened, therefore i believe you did the right thing, you only told him off, and i for one,know that if my DS was the bully here, and he still hadn't stopped after teacher intervention etc and the parent said something, i'd quite agree!!

I DID NOT congratulate the OP at all. And I HAVE NOT said that I thought that people are ridiculous for calling her heavy handed (have just checked).

Either way, none of what you have just said is the same as saying YANBU. I say that having experienced my parents reaction to bullying as a child and as then having to deal with it myself as a parent (albeit it to a lesser degree) I can see how it ends up like that.

You will also notice that I've said you have to be certain before launching in; in my first post to OP and then again later when I described a conversation with my son.

It does also strike me as a bit ironic.

Those of us who are saying that OP went about this in totally the wrong way are being accused of being PFB-ish about it. As in, you must be of the opinion that children should not be told off and this is why kids become thugs.

It has just occurred to me that in fact, it might just be the other way round. Because I am prepared to accept that my child, in relating an incident from school, may not be 100% accurate in her re-telling. This might be because she doesn't want to get in to trouble for her part in it, it might be because she did have a role to play but didn't realise it was irritating the other kids, or it might be because she doesn't like a particular child and has decided that an accident was in fact no accident but part of a vendetta against her (not in that language if she's six, obviously). And in being prepared to accept that she may not have given me the full version of events, I am not likely to go wading in and accosting random children.

And yes, the OP had approached school. About one incident. No-one, repeat no-one, had told the school that there had been follow-up from the other lad.

So it is starting to seem that people who believe that the OP acted perfectly in this case think that either their children always always relate events perfectly from start to finish with no misunderstandings or hiding of facts, or that their children always always behave immediately once they have been told something once - they never ever do it again. Or both.

I am a little sceptical on both counts.

It does NOT mean that one child hitting another should be tolerated. But that you stand back for a second and think about all the possible variations on what you have been told before you go wading in.

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick Bamboo - after reading a lot of posts I do tend to merge them slightly and forget who said what exactly, so if I extracted things you didn't intend then I apologise.

But what does YANBU mean, if not that you condone the OP's action? I'm getting very muddled and possibly just need an early night. And I hope you notice that I did indeed spot that you said you had to be certain - which is partly why I got confused. These essence of all of this, for me, is that the OP can't have been certain - that, and the way in she chose to approach the other kid.

'Tis ok baby.
It's hard to make yourself understood all the time on a forum.

OP's reaction, assuming she had availed herself of the full facts and had approached the school, to me, is understandable.

That's what I mean by saying YANBU.

It may not have been the best approach, but I do get it.

I've assumed that the OP was pretty certain and whilst it's regrettable to have to do this at all, if the child continues and the school doesn't step in, a firm word I believe is not a disproportionate step.

Perhaps my assumption is not correct.

I suspect we are basically on the same page because I also think you have to be certain, but if you are (and I don't mean just hearing your kid's side of the story and not probing further - something she didn't mention) then a firm word is fine.
My other issue though is that from what she said about bending over the kid and shoving a finger in his face, saying 'There'll be trouble', it doesn't sound to me like having a firm word. That sounds as though she veered over into threatening. To me, having a firm word means being clear about what you mean 'If you do that again I will be back in school telling your teacher and your headmaster, and I will also be writing to your mother' which surely means far more to a six year old than some vague and formelss 'trouble'. After all, she has no idea what his frame of reference for the word 'trouble' is - it could be that he associates it with violence but it could equally be that he associates it with no consequences at all because he doesn't receive consequences at home. Just because my kid knows what I mean by trouble doesn't mean others do. Threats should always be clear, to my way of thinking. And you don't need to go about it with that body language, which I think was OTT.
If my boss at work decided to tell me off for something I'd done wrong by leaning over me and shoving his finger in my face I'd be scared. All I have been saying is that you need to handle this appropriately.

And to be honest, I actually think she didn't get school involved enough - she informed them of one incident which isn't enough.

So I would take her course of action but only after much more effort to work with the school to resolve it, and not in the manner in which she went about it.