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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to not want to be made to feel guilty

194 replies

FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 11:39

For wanting to go to Uni? I posted a while ago about not really being happy about where my life is.
So I took advice and I went to my local Uni open day to look at doing a photography degree. I loved it, everything about it, the campus, the tutors, the course, everything. The head of dept told us about the careers that graduates had now and it was amazing listening to how successful they are now and thinking that could be me one day if I worked for it.
So I got home and told DH and was met with nothing but negatives. 'Well you can't apply next year, DD is too little' (she would be one and a half if I got accepted) I said this is something I want and it's not like it's pointless, I could get an amazing career out of this and I don't want to be 30 before it all begins. I then get this reply which made me feel awful 'Well we shouldn't have had kids then' :( Is that what people would think? I just want a better life for us and I think this is the way to go, I don't see how it's any different to going back to work after having a baby.

OP posts:
JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 31/10/2011 14:19

I talk btw as someone who went to university with fairly clear ideas about where I wanted it to lead - none of which have come to fruition.

But I have never, ever regretted my decision to go. It's true that I wasn't a parent at the time - but many of my fellow students did and I don't think any of them regret their university days, either.

BabyDubsEverywhere · 31/10/2011 14:19

I will be starting Uni next September. I have been at home with the DC for 5 years now, and therefore not earning anything. My Dh has always had average income jobs so not flush by anymeans with a mortgage etc but we get by quite happily, (spose expectations come into that quite heavily though?)

We have worked out we will be better off when I start Uni! I will be taking every sudent loan going, along with a maintenance grant and childcare partically paid we will still be a couple of grand a year up so wont cost us anything, its something I really want to do and my fantastically supportive DH is with me all the way (Thank the heavens!)

Look into the student finance to see how you will fair with income from uni grants/childcare payments/bursaries/loans and compare that to cost of actually attending uni, include all you materials and travel and anything extra you can think of (I even put lunch money in mine Grin ) Have it all clearly set out, research nursery/childcare options as well and have everythig to hand. You will have a much better footing then when you talk to your DH, and you need to talk to him and get him on side, it will be hell other wise. I can think of much worse things than for a child to attend a nursery for a few days a week. I actually used to send mine to nursey before they started school nursery as it was fun for them to go to.

Photography sounds dodgy to me, work prospects etc afterwards, but then I havent looked into it, Im assuming you have? Get as much info about realistic opportunites as you can, and then get some back up jobs that you could apply for that have nothing to do with Photography so you can show DH, (and yourself) that you have thought it all through first.

Good luck OP :)

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 31/10/2011 14:19

many of my fellow students had children I mean.

BabyDubsEverywhere · 31/10/2011 14:20

Sorry that was so long, hope it makes sence? Smile

Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 14:23

Again, I know I don't need a degree, it's my DHs very negative attitude that I was upset about.
Also I can see where I've confused people, I didn't mean I only want to be a top fashion photographer and that's it, I just don't want to be doing the same old family portrait stuff that everyone else is doing. I love sports photography, I love live music photography. I love working with photoshop, retouching, so I wouldn't mind doing other stuff, when I said i didn't want to do anything else I meant another career, I dont want to be a teacher or work in an office. Sorry I didn't put that accross very well.

OP posts:
Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 14:24

Thanks babydubseverywhere that would really helpful :)

OP posts:
Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 14:24

*was even

OP posts:
ChippingInAutumnLover · 31/10/2011 14:24

Sorry I'm having huge problems with the laptop - it's running really slow and missing out chucks of text. Grrrr. Must buy a lottery ticket tonight!!

winnybella · 31/10/2011 14:25

Hmm. Ok, I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if anyone has mentioned it already, but tbh in this business the most important things are connections, talent and ...connections Hmm

I've worked in NYC and Paris as a fashion model for over 10 years. Most of the successful photographers started off as assistants, most of them didn't do a degree in photography. Tbh I'm not sure that you realize that if you're doing well in this business (fashion photography) it will mean often having to be in, say, Rio, NYC and LA, all in the same week. Are you sure you would be ok with that wrt to your children?

You don't need to own expensive equipment, btw, as you can rent it for a job and the client will pay for it.

screamingbohemian · 31/10/2011 14:27

I think the most important thing is that your DH is supportive of you actually going out and doing photography.

His attitude about uni sucks but some people are just anti-uni -- they will never see the point unless it directly leads to a really high-paid job.

tabulahrasa · 31/10/2011 14:28

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to go to uni, or wanting to do it with young children - I do think it's easier when they're in school though, for everybody

I can understand you DH being annoyed and overreacting if he thought you had already agreed that you'd stay at home...

If you really want to do it now, you need to work out the practicalities and talk to him again

but honestly, if it's something you really really want to do - waiting fir a couple if years isn't the end of the world either

winnybella · 31/10/2011 14:29

My point being that experience is the best teacher and if I were you I would be working on my portfolio and then trying to get little jobs/ assisting.

Who's the famous photographer whom you mentioned, btw?

NellyMelba · 31/10/2011 14:30

i wouldnt want my child in nursery either - i did my degree when my kids were about 10, but if you could wait a couple of years until she goes to school, you would both be happy

btw, photographers are 10 a penny these days, every man and his dogs think they are good at it

Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 14:31

Im sure it was Nick Knight.

OP posts:
Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 14:33

I have to go and get DS from school but I will be back later, Im not ignoring posts, thanks for all the advice and comments

OP posts:
winnybella · 31/10/2011 14:34

Ah, yes. Not sure about that, tbh, but he is doing very well, no doubt.

I think you need to weigh everything carefully, mainly the cost of doing the degree, knowing that it in itself is no guarantee of a successful career. OTOH, after having a degree and having made connections (!) your chances are good of working well, even if not in fashion. So definitely better than stewing at home for next few years.

grumplestilskin · 31/10/2011 14:36

phew long thread! so not read it all, here are my thoughts on the OP

REMEMBER that open days are all sell sell sell! I went to one where there was a PP presentation on graduates doing fantastic degree related jobs, there was an on the ball parent in the audience who GRILLED the lecturer and it transpired that every graduate shown had done masters etc in places like Oxford before getting the flashy jobs that he was implying they got from the batchelors degree he was sellings

ask how many graduates are working full time in photography. ask that exact question! its very easy for them to pick out some individual poster children who did amazing things, but how does the AVERAGE grad do? and if they say oh 90% of our grads got jobs.. well yes but how many of those jobs are in telesales?

I am not anti uni, uni is great! but it is so important to not get carried away at open days and come back down to earth and make sure it is right for you!

would a city and guilds level 3 not get you into the jobs you want? it could be done in the evenings for not much more than a grand in total, over 18 months and at the end you submit to the whatever it is that pro photographers submit to... might be a better route for your end goal

don't forget your end goal, uni campuses are so much more inviting than an evening course at a college but keep your aims and objectives in mind

good luck

grumplestilskin · 31/10/2011 14:39

p.s. I went to uni with a baby, very doable but I had a supportive DH

ChippingInAutumnLover · 31/10/2011 14:42

Well - that sounds far more balanced :) Does DH know that or do you think you may have confused him too?

How would he feel about DD going into nursery at 2.5?

He may have said what he said out of frustration or worry - he may really mean 'You should have gone to uni when there was only you & I to worry about, now we have kids it's hard being the only breadwinner and I was hoping that when they went to school you'd get a job too'... panic. From the other things you have said, he sounds like a nice bloke who supports you... and don't forget it took both of you to get pregnant with DD, it wasn't something he did to you, to stop you going to uni when DS was at school. He said he'd be happy for you to do it when DS went to school, it's only natural that his feelings on that would follow through with any other children you had.

The other thing (and it gets a bit of a bashing on here, but I'm a big girl and I can cope Grin) is that you say you aren't having any more kids, your two will only be little once, once that's gone, it's gone. Right now you might not be able to appreciate what an amazing time in your life and theirs it is... but you are young and there will be plenty of time to go to uni when they are both at school - maybe just try making the most of what you have now for a year or two and keep on doing the bits & pieces you can around that.

grumplestilskin · 31/10/2011 14:43

"I just don't want to be doing the same old family portrait stuff that everyone else is doing."

everyone does it because it pays the bills and it's what people want! I'm sure most portrait photographers would rather spend their days photographing gigs and sports events too but noone pays them to do that.

NinkyNonker · 31/10/2011 14:44

How many times do we see people on here going on about what degrees are worth doing and what we should be encouraging our children to do now there are huge fees etc? Sorry, but photography wouyld fall under that bracket for most people. If an unencumbered 18 year old should think twice so should an adult with family responsibilities.

spiderpig8 · 31/10/2011 14:56

' I will be taking every sudent loan going, along with a maintenance grant and childcare partically paid we will still be a couple of grand a year up so wont cost us anything'

You are better off because you are getting the loan advance, when you will be worse off is when you start paying it back!! that's what people are trying to tell you!!

HerdOfTinyElephants · 31/10/2011 15:02

Family portraiture doesn't pay the bills, for most people. Actually making a proper family-supporting living out of it is incredibly hard, because there are so many talented amateurs/semi-professionals/"professionals" who are pricing themselves at a completely unsustainable level out there. Look at all the threads on MN and what people think is a reasonable level to pay for family photographs, then add up the time spent on shooting, editing and marketing not to mention equipment in order to get that sale, and you'll not find it's an impressive hourly rate.

Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 15:58

I realise I come across as really selfish but I only want to provide for my kids and them to be proud of me. MY mum couldn't be bothered when we were kids, couldn't be bothered with us, working, or anything, she's 41 now and still sits at home watching tv all day doing nothing. (well as far as I know, I've not spoken to her in a couple of years but I can't imagine she's changed) I don't want to be the same, I want to make something of my life.
I've spoken to DH, phoned him on his break. He said he was sorry about he said, he didn't mean it. He was just worried about dd going into nursery so young. We've come to a compromise. I mentioned about the City and Guild and he said he'd pay for me to do that and then if I wanted to go to uni when dd is in school or a bit older and in nursery then he'd be 100% behind that.

OP posts:
WineAndPizza · 31/10/2011 15:59

FrenchRuby did you say earlier that you already did the OU course? Didn't that give you a degree? Or would it not be enough to get started with? It seems a bit odd to do OU and then a degree (unless that's what photographers do - I have no idea)

But I think if my partner had already done that (presumably at a cost) I would be less keen to fund as a family another specialist course with no guarantee of a job

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