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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to not want to be made to feel guilty

194 replies

FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 11:39

For wanting to go to Uni? I posted a while ago about not really being happy about where my life is.
So I took advice and I went to my local Uni open day to look at doing a photography degree. I loved it, everything about it, the campus, the tutors, the course, everything. The head of dept told us about the careers that graduates had now and it was amazing listening to how successful they are now and thinking that could be me one day if I worked for it.
So I got home and told DH and was met with nothing but negatives. 'Well you can't apply next year, DD is too little' (she would be one and a half if I got accepted) I said this is something I want and it's not like it's pointless, I could get an amazing career out of this and I don't want to be 30 before it all begins. I then get this reply which made me feel awful 'Well we shouldn't have had kids then' :( Is that what people would think? I just want a better life for us and I think this is the way to go, I don't see how it's any different to going back to work after having a baby.

OP posts:
ViviPru · 31/10/2011 13:19

If you can afford it, then YANBU and your DH IBU. Sounds like he's frightened - he's got used to you in the role of wife & mother, and is scared that you're contemplating a completely different way of life that seems to him to be so at odds with family life.

I agree with other posters that a photography degree is a waste of money if your doing it to get a career as a photographer, no matter how industry linked and commercial it is. If instead you're viewing it as a way to spend the next chapter of your life which may (or may not) result in a career you love, then I can't think of anything better to do.

I have a career as a designer and I do quite a bit of photography on the side (I did a photography module as part of my degree, but I have no formal photographic qualifications) I really don't think you need a photography degree to be a photographer, just go out and do it. I started out doing unpaid placements and these days one assignment tends to lead to another. I don't do as much paid photography as I could as it involves loads of travelling, being away from loved ones and sleep depravation. As squeaky says its tough to be a full-time pro and make money out of it, but not impossible. People told me that about being a full time designer, and yet I was determined to make it work and I earn way more than my friends doing a job I enjoy. I am reluctant to go pro-photographer as I don't think I'd enjoy it as much if it became a job.

You need to be really REALLY honest with yourself about how good you are, and how good you could be potentially. Also how much time you could commit to it if it did become a career. Do you have a flickr? I'd love to see it.

spookshowangellovesit · 31/10/2011 13:19

Grin my dp just finished a degree he worked as ta while he did it, its what student loans are for. he has a hefty debt now but he wanted to retrain and its about being happy. isnt that important in life.

squeakyfreakytoy · 31/10/2011 13:19

£100k? really?

I knew I should have stayed on those tills in Halford when I was 18! Grin

rainbowinthesky · 31/10/2011 13:19

But one day I assume she will be working in what ever job she does and will have to pay them back out of income for the family.

rainbowinthesky · 31/10/2011 13:21

How can you have been planning it for years if you have a 4 year old and a 6 month old or have I missed something?

worraliberty · 31/10/2011 13:21

The average pay for a store manager is around £25k - £35 according to Google, but that's basic before any bonuses.

Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 13:21

vivipru I will pm it to you

OP posts:
rainbowinthesky · 31/10/2011 13:21

Sorry, squeaky, not Halfords. I meant places like Tescos.

worraliberty · 31/10/2011 13:22

£35k...not £35 obviously Blush

ViviPru · 31/10/2011 13:22

cool, thanks FR

wordfactory · 31/10/2011 13:22

vivi I know lots of actors, musicians, writers etc and I suspect every single one of them met with similar reactions. No one ever makes a go of it etc etc.

Well someone has to don't they!

ChippingInAutumnLover · 31/10/2011 13:22

I think you would do well to listen to what Squeaky said.

It's all very well people saying 'follow your dreams' and 'someone has to be the one - why not you'... but tbh the time to do those things is before you have young children. To get that one in a million fashion photograhers job you are going to need to be be able to travel a lot, drop things at a moments notice, be away from home a lot... you have two small children and a husband on a store managers wage - I feel a little bit of perspective is required.

YO

Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 13:24

rainbowinthesky I wanted to go to uni after DS was in nursery but then DH said I had to wait until he was in school and then by the time he was leaving nursery I was pregnant with DD

OP posts:
squeakyfreakytoy · 31/10/2011 13:24

Ruby, I do not think grants will cover camera bodies that cost £2k and upwards, or lenses that are even more expensive.. which really is the sort of kit you need to get near the top.

Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 13:25

As I said before I was too young to go to uni when I was pregnant with DS

OP posts:
hairylights · 31/10/2011 13:25

The thing about this is that it is very different to going back to work - you'll be accruing expenses and debts rather than bringing in an income.

The thing is that it is very different to going back to work. You'll accrue expenses and debts rather than bringing in an income . How will your fees be paid? If it's from family income then it's family decision.

My worry would be how you have ended up in this situation with children with a man who is so very different in his aspirations for you?

Was this something you discussed and agreed previously?

If you had agreed you wouldn't be a sahp, what had you agreed would happen? Was he expecting you to return to work?

ViviPru · 31/10/2011 13:26

That's how I think wordfactory

True though, ChippingIn I'm a smug-arsed designer who gets to photograph music festivals on the side lucky me but oops, I'm 32 and motherhood is fast becoming a ship that could well have sailed. You pays your money and takes your chance....

cantspel · 31/10/2011 13:27

Tesco has a graduate scheme for their top flyers. These are the ones who will be on track to earn £100k plus.

Ephiny · 31/10/2011 13:27

It's a shame your DH can't be more supportive of your ambitions, and it does sound as though he has some very odd attitudes. If he's adamant that he 'doesn't want DD in nursery', then he should have made arrangements to save up and take a career break or similar in order to be able to care for her himself. Not assuming automatically that you will do it because you happen to be female, especially if you never wanted or intended to become a SAHM.

I definitely don't think you should feel guilty about wanting to pursue your career. Lots of parents with young children do degrees, it's absolutely possible, though it helps of course if you have a supportive partner! It might be easier to wait until your children are in school, if childcare costs are going to be a problem, though you might be able to get assistance with the costs of course.

Would also question whether you need a degree to have a good career in photography, though I have exactly no experience in that area so assume you know better than I do!

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 31/10/2011 13:28

He's always going to shift the goalposts.

Listen to him if you like, and then in 5 years times the resentment will be sufficient for you to kick him out and go it alone.

The negative replies on this thread are quite astonishing tbh.

screamingbohemian · 31/10/2011 13:28

I'm afraid I have to agree with Squeaky, a number of my close friends are photographers (all sorts) and it is extremely rare to get to the point where you can support yourself with photography (let alone make a really good wage).

These are people who are single, no kids, immensely talented, and they are still not making it.

Fashion photography involves years of unpaid labour, long hours, and lots of travel. The chances of being able to break into that world whilst maintaining a family life are very small.

I do sympathise, in an ideal world I would be a writer. Instead I'm doing a postgrad in something slightly more practical and writing as a hobby.

I think you should keep doing photography as a hobby and make use of social media to build a name for yourself -- keep a blog, flickr account, submit photos to competitions, etc. Do voluntary work for organisations. There are lots of things you can do that will eventually bring in some paid work.

I think once you get to THAT stage it would make more sense to do a degree, because then it is building on something.

There are plenty of jobs out there that utilise photography too -- why not do a degree in graphic design or layout or something like that? Then your hobby and your job can intersect and enhance each other.

Normally I always encourage people to follow their dreams, but I have seen firsthand that photography is such a tough field that I think you should proceed cautiously. Your DH is BU to make you feel guilty, but I dont' think he's wrong to think your plans are unrealistic, I'm sorry.

wordfactory · 31/10/2011 13:30

Actually, I can think of very few worse things than having an unsupportive partner.

Over the years DH and I have done some things that have made others a bit Hmm. But we have always stood solidly together. That way the ones that didn't work out as intended are no cause for any resentment. We just shrug and laugh.

Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 13:30

Can I just ask, if I was looking to do a degree in another area say something that would enable me to become a teacher or something, would people's opinions be different?

OP posts:
ChippingInAutumnLover · 31/10/2011 13:31

Sorry - having laptop problems, that was about 1/5th of what I'd written.

Will rewrite and repost.

WilsonFrickett · 31/10/2011 13:31

I do understand the sense of urgency, but this is partly because the creative industries are considered to be young peoples game. And that's because (apart from those who are subsidised by the bank of Mum and Dad) it is expected that enthusiastic and enormously driven people with masses of talent will work for free, expenses or incredibly low wages to get their foot in the door.

You are looking at 3 years of Uni, then possibly another 3 - 5 years of grunt work before you'll have anything like a good enough portfolio. That is not a reason not to do it, but it is a reason for your DH to not be madly enthused by the prospect. And I think saying 'the thread isn't about whether I can afford it' - well, actually, it is a big part of it and a lot of people are focusing on that because it doesn't seem like you've really thought that part of it through.

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