AIBU to not want to be made to feel guilty

[FrenchRuby]

For wanting to go to Uni? I posted a while ago about not really being happy about where my life is.
So I took advice and I went to my local Uni open day to look at doing a photography degree. I loved it, everything about it, the campus, the tutors, the course, everything. The head of dept told us about the careers that graduates had now and it was amazing listening to how successful they are now and thinking that could be me one day if I worked for it.
So I got home and told DH and was met with nothing but negatives. 'Well you can't apply next year, DD is too little' (she would be one and a half if I got accepted) I said this is something I want and it's not like it's pointless, I could get an amazing career out of this and I don't want to be 30 before it all begins. I then get this reply which made me feel awful 'Well we shouldn't have had kids then' :( Is that what people would think? I just want a better life for us and I think this is the way to go, I don't see how it's any different to going back to work after having a baby.

screaming just because somehting is a tough gig shoud that put you off? Really?

You are quite right that the majority of writers don't make a living wage fron their writing. But there are some of us that do. I know plenty of others. And I also know lots of writers who make a living wage by a patchwork of freelance work that is writing related.

Honestly, if it's what you really want to do, you should go for it.

The thing is, it sounds like it's all about you and your dreams here. I don't mean that to sound harsh, you don't actually come across as selfish or anything, but you do sound quite blinkered, and as if you are only seeing the amazing positives and the potential, and not the negatives and the massive impact this will have on the rest of your family.

There's a lot that he's not wrong about as well, and certainly not wrong in raising as concerns. I do agree that for most people, if you have kids early on in life, that means that career development comes later on. It is actually very hard to do everything and have everything all at the same time. I don't mean it's not possible to do both, but it's really hard to do both well, and most of us have to prioritise things at certain times in our lives, rather than having it all.

It just feels like you are approaching it as a fait accompli - I want to do this course to get this job, and you should support me. I can't imagine having that conversation with my DH. I can imagine sitting together discussing what I should do with my career/how to make sure that I was earning a suitable amount to be able to live the life we want for our family, and how to also have personal fulfilment into the bargain. More to the point, I can imagine having that conversation, only in the context of what he also wanted to do career wise, so that as a partnership, we were planning for the future together.

The personal fulfilment is important, no doubt about it, but when we have responsibilities, we need to deal with the actual needs first, before the wants. And your alternative of not doing this and 'get a job somewhere I will hate every day' sounds a bit of a silly reaction. It isn't a case of do this one course now, or have a miserable life, there are hundreds of alternatives between these two extremes.

That being said, it is good to have a dream and some focus/direction about what you want to do, I just think that you need to discuss it with DH some more, and in a more balanced way.

D

UANBU.

To all the negative people. Not getting the career you want after a degree can and does apply to almost every single profession. Nothing is certain, and you just don't know until you try.

What kind of message would she sending out to her children if she's not working to her full potential to achieve something amazing? If she's letting other people tell her she might not be good enough, that she shouldn't have had kids if she wants a career, that her dreams and hopes are unreasonable?

Life is too short and too precious for what ifs. She will have a much more positive influence on her children if she shows them what can be achieved by trying to follow dreams.

French, go for it.

Of course you would be getting different replies if you wanted to do a teaching degree -- at the end of it, you would have a much better chance of getting a job and having a reasonable family life.

But if you don't want to be a teacher, that's an equally bad idea.

What kind of jobs have you had before? Can you think of anything else you might like to do?

If you were doing a degree that would directly link to something with better job prospects that you had to complete in order to get the job then I think people would be more supportive, yes. And I'm not sure how fair that is.

But in this case, you don't need a degree to be photographer, you can start doing more with the photography while continuing to do part-time courses, etc etc and build it up that way.

Your DP is BU but you not presenting your case in the right way either, if that makes sense.

And now I must go and make money writing

mY DNeice has a 1st class Photography degree and couldn't get any decent work in it.She is stuck now photographing people round the pool on holiday.
yhink how many people graduate each year from the course you were interested in, and how many of their careers did he tell you about? I bet not a quarter of them!

screamingbohemian No, there is nothing else that I want to do.

From a different perspective... you do not need a degree to be a good photographer or to work in a creative industry. It's about experience, confidence and skill. Get out there and do it - get your experience by working for friends and family as a wedding/party/christening photographer; build a portfolio; enter competitions. A degree is nowt but a bit of paper.

Epiphany - I could be wrong, but considering the OP was too young to go to uni I'm assuming her DS wasn't planned & her DH didn't have time to save before having chidren and as her DH is on a store managers wage supporting his wife & 2 kids he probably isn't in a position to save up and take a career break. I'd also hazzard a guess that the OP probably couldn't simply go and get a job, earning what he's earning, to enable him to stay at home with his children. It's not always a bloody feminism arguement you know.

You see FrenchRuby saying that - there is nothing else you want to do, is where I start to lose my empathy for your position, there are hundreds of things you could do, and focussing on doing this one course now as being the only possible thing that could possibly make you happy sounds a bit...well it sounds a bit silly really.

Sorry. I really am sorry, because I sense that you feel like you're at some kind of cross roads in your life and you have one chance to make a decision or it will all go irrevocably wrong. But that's just not true. It just isn't. Life is much more fluid than that, there is so much more give and take.

ChippingInAutumnLover You're exactly right. If I went out and got a job now I'd never be able to earn as much as he does, he's worked his way up the company.

Thanks for the encouragement word

My parents are writers and I know many others, so I know it's possible to scratch out a living... have some good years, some bad years...I do freelance editing myself. And I do a lot of writing for my course and paid work, it's more policy writing though.

But to me it's like the OP is saying 'I want to do a degree and be a best-selling novelist.' I don't want to discourage her from doing the course, but I think her expectations are a bit high. If she said 'I want to do a degree and don't care too much about the career, will be happy with occasional freelance work' -- my answer would be different.

I am still writing, in fact I am working on a book now which I hope to shop around next year. I did freelance work for many years but now that I have a family, well, yes, I do feel a bit more obligated to do something more stable, which I also happen to enjoy.

spiderpig8 the fact your niece couldn't get any decent work in photography is going to be partially down to her no matter how good a degree she has.

One of my best friends has a photography degree. She hasn't made it as a photographer. I don't have a photography degree yet I get paid to take photographs.

Its all down to the individual, how good they are and how they go about making it happen.

Right - so it's a Top Fashion Photographer or nothing is it?

How does this

I posted a while ago about not really being happy about where my life is. So I took advice and I went to my local Uni open day to look at doing a photography degree

go with this

I have been planning this for years but it's always 'the wrong time'

??

Why could you not work your way up in a cpmpany too? Your attitude is very all or nothing.

There must be something else that you'd find tolerable to do. OP you do sound very young to me (if you think 30 is so old your life will be practically over :)) and very rigid about having things exactly as you want.

I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue your dreams, and I really do think it's a shame that your DH only had negative things to say, and no encouragement or willingness to discuss if/how it could be made to work. But I think you have to be a little more flexible. It doesn't have to be this particular course, now, and that particular job, or a lifetime of hated drudgery otherwise. Life doesn't work that way. There's more than one way to get to where you want to be, and sometimes things don't work out but other opportunities come up, and you can find yourself doing something that actually suits you better than your original ambition.

Why not keep the idea of the degree on hold for when your youngest starts school. And in the meantime, look at what you can practically do - gaining experience and improving your skills, making contacts, doing what freelance work you can etc. Better than sitting around moping over what you can't do right now.

screamingbohemian Mon 31-Oct-11 13:28:50

"I think you should keep doing photography as a hobby and make use of social media to build a name for yourself -- keep a blog, flickr account, submit photos to competitions, etc."

Excellent advice.

Deliaskis I think that most people who are successful in the arts industry are fairly selfish single minded. It's really tough, and you won't make it if you aren't committed 100%.

You also need to be a complete Pollyanna positive to survive the harsh realities of rejection culture.

I mean there is nothing else I want to do as a career, I didn't mean that this course.
I think people are misunderstanding my whole point. Im upset that he said we shouldn't have had kids if I'd wanted an education and that I was made to feel guilty about wanting to better myself. I know there's lots to think about, i never said there wasn't but it was his attitude that I was pissed off about.

" considering the OP was too young to go to uni I'm assuming her DS wasn't planned & her DH didn't have time to save before having chidren and as her DH is on a store managers wage supporting his wife & 2 kids he probably isn't in a position to save up and take a career break."

Oh I know, and it wasn't an entirely serious suggestion! What I was trying to say is that he doesn't just get to unilaterally decide and announce that 'DD will not go to nursery' but expect the OP to make all the sacrifices and take care of all the practicalities of making that happen, regardless of her views and ambitions. He needs to be a bit more flexible and willing to compromise his principles as well (seems like they have a personality trait in common here :))

True words wordfactory I make it sound easy but I get to have a fulfilling creative career after ten years of slog and outrageous singlemindedness, which have meant I have had to delay starting a family. Sounds like the OP isn't blinkered to this though...

french I'd be so pissed off if I were you.

It would be one thing for your DP to say he was worried about the financial situation, or whether you would be too strecthed by the course or the practicalities of illnesses and inset days yadda yadda...but to be so negative in such a blanket way? Soul destroying.

I do think he's very, very unreasonable to say you should never have had children if you wanted to go to university. Lots of people do this, and I've never heard anyone suggest they shouldn't have had a family. That was a stupid and offensive thing to say IMO.

But it does obviously put some restrictions on what you can do, and when. I think what people are saying is that you need to find the balance between following your ambitions and developing your career, and the practicalities of your situation right now. Not everyone can do exactly what they want when they want, frustrating as it is, that's just life!