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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to not want to be made to feel guilty

194 replies

FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 11:39

For wanting to go to Uni? I posted a while ago about not really being happy about where my life is.
So I took advice and I went to my local Uni open day to look at doing a photography degree. I loved it, everything about it, the campus, the tutors, the course, everything. The head of dept told us about the careers that graduates had now and it was amazing listening to how successful they are now and thinking that could be me one day if I worked for it.
So I got home and told DH and was met with nothing but negatives. 'Well you can't apply next year, DD is too little' (she would be one and a half if I got accepted) I said this is something I want and it's not like it's pointless, I could get an amazing career out of this and I don't want to be 30 before it all begins. I then get this reply which made me feel awful 'Well we shouldn't have had kids then' :( Is that what people would think? I just want a better life for us and I think this is the way to go, I don't see how it's any different to going back to work after having a baby.

OP posts:
Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 13:58

That's what I mean, I mean yes she'll be 1 and a half and have to go to nursery, ok I'll wait a few years that's fine but then it'll be something else... it always is.

OP posts:
HerdOfTinyElephants · 31/10/2011 13:58

So do you think that he keeps making excuses to put off your going to university because he's trying to keep you down and stop you doing it at all ? Or does he genuinely just have a thing about institutional childcare for small children and think that you have your priorities wrong right now ?

If the former, then there's never going to be a "good time" in his opinion so I think you should push ahead with it. If the latter, then try and focus your discussions around that -- for example, what about a childminder rather than a nursery so that your DD would be in a more home-based setting, or putting off starting university for one year (but no more) so that she'd be two and a half when you started?

screamingbohemian · 31/10/2011 13:59

Thanks vivi Smile

I work in the squarest field imaginable and it's still all about using social media to promote yourself and get work.

If people google you and don't find anything, you're toast!

I think some degree programmes are getting more and more desperate to get people in, especially with the fee rises. I think it's actually quite irresponsible, the absurdly glowing portrait the OP got.

wordfactory · 31/10/2011 13:59

vivi I am only half joking whenever I liken myself to Lady Macbeth vis a vis ambition Wink

Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 14:00

I'd be more than happy to wait for a few years but then there will be some other reason why I can't do it when I bring up applying again.

OP posts:
Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 14:01

If I google my name my photography website comes up :)

OP posts:
PopcornMouse · 31/10/2011 14:02

But why do you feel the need to do a degree, OP? You don't need one to work as a photographer.

wordfactory · 31/10/2011 14:03

OP, is your DH fearful of you changing your lives in any ways, or just in this way?

I say this because my DH has, ahem, reigned in some of my more ridiculous propositions, but he has whole heartedly supported others which have involved huge change for our family.

Ephiny · 31/10/2011 14:04

Well whatever you do don't get pregnant again - or there will be another reason!

I'm starting to feel this is more about your relationship and feelings of resentment about the role you find yourself in at the moment, rather than about doing a particular course...

screamingbohemian · 31/10/2011 14:05

OP but your DH must understand that at some point you will be needing to go back to work -- right?

Does he just want you to get some dead-end job you hate? So that you can't be happier than him?

If you have not been working for so long then realistically you will need to do some course or training to get a decent job.

Would he be okay with you doing a degree in something else -- something with better job prospects?

If he doesn't want you to improve yourself AT ALL, then obviously he is BU.

But if what he meant by his comments was more like, hey, unfortunately if you want to do a degree with poor job prospects and pursue a dream job that's not likely, it's not really fair to do that when you have kids and not much money -- well, I still think he's being a bit unreasonable, but less so.

wordfactory · 31/10/2011 14:07

I think it must be awful to be married to someone who doesn't get you.

Living with someone who doesn't understand your big dreams must be like living with a stranger.
Similarly, living with a dreamer when you are more practical and risk averse must also be a living hell.

Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 14:08

Im not having anymore children.
I know I don't need a degree and I have been looking into a City and Guilds. I dont think he wants me to go to uni, he was a bit more positive about the City and Guilds.

OP posts:
screamingbohemian · 31/10/2011 14:09

x-post

ah that's great you have a website already Smile

do you use twitter? great for networking and getting people to link to your stuff

MrGin · 31/10/2011 14:09

I did a photography degree around 13 years ago. Loved it. It opened up a whole world of ideas and possibilities. It was challenging, rewarding and hugely enjoyable. I'd recommend it.

But....... I'd just give you a spoonful of reality. You need to earn money when you've finished. And you need to be realistic about this. And probably very hard nosed, and posses heroic amounts of determination.

I'm sure there are many cases of women who have children, despite the odds, becoming world class artists through talent and sheer bloodymindedness.

If you want to do this you need to be realistic about the money side. Becoming a top fashion photographer is pretty unlikely to happen anytime soon after graduation. If ever. I know people who have been at it for two decades and have just about achieved minor success. The fashion world is very fickle too.

Look at the more practical areas of photography that will make you money whilst continuing on your pursuit. Photo retouching ( Photoshop ) , event photography, weddings, etc.

Photography is one of those professions that everyone wants to do, and hence there are many many people out there all looking for the commission. It's very very competitive. But if you're smart there is no reason why you couldn't make money from it.... just be realistic.

activate · 31/10/2011 14:09

BUT PHOTOGRAPHY SHOULD NOT BE A UNIVERSITY COURSE WITH THE ASSOCIATED FEES - university should be for pure academic or vocational degrees only

Why don't you try to get some work experience instead - get a portfolio together

wordfactory · 31/10/2011 14:09

Is it the thought of you making a successful career out of photography tht bothers him?
Or is it the thought of how you will get there?

screamingbohemian · 31/10/2011 14:09

Hmm

Did your DH go to uni? Is it as simple as he doesn't want you to do something he couldn't?

HerdOfTinyElephants · 31/10/2011 14:11

There was a thread on here recently about "what would you look for in a freelance commercial photographer and all the posters (when I read it, anyway) agreed that they would be looking for someone with a degree-level qualification rather than someone self-taught. I think there's every chance that as the OP wants to be a commercial/fashion photographer she does need a photography degree.

Sandalwood · 31/10/2011 14:12

It's unfortunate for you that it's pretty grim for photography graduates out there. I can hear how excited you are about some of the good jobs previous students have gone on to but I read recently that there are more people studying photography just in London than there are photography jobs in Europe.
Your DH sounds a very 'sensible' person, I can't see you talking him round easily.
You do shoots for your sister? You should be doing as someone suggested earlier, and also put yourself out there for experience/jobs/placements etc.

You're too young to be all 'I don't want to get to 50....' (that's about 20 years away! - you could be paying for your DCs uni fees by then).
I love the way you make it sound as though your DD is something which just happened to you without your consent - are you planning on having any more soon? - I don't know, are you and your DH reading from the same page at all?

tabulahrasa · 31/10/2011 14:13

Not being funny - but, it's not a different reason is it? It's the same reason, just a different child.

if you raised this when your DS was younger and agreed that you would stay at home until he was at school - I can see why your DH would assume that by implication that would be the same for DD.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 31/10/2011 14:14

I don't give a flying fuck whether the OP needs to go to university. She wants to go and can go.

It might not lead to a successful career straight away - but where will she be in five years time if she doesn't go? Certainly no further along careerwise than she is now.

Original poster
FrenchRuby · 31/10/2011 14:14

I dont even know. You're all probably right, it's money, the kids being in childcare that's bothering him.
He's supportive when it comes to me going out and taking photos (when I go on shoots etc) but he's very anti me going to uni. I wanted a qualification behind me, I also want to learn more about it, I was very interested in the areas they cover in the course and wanted to know more about it.
I'll look into City and Guilds more and local collages for part time courses, if he gets arsey about those too then I'll know it's the career choice rather than the money side of it.

OP posts:
ChippingInAutumnLover · 31/10/2011 14:14

OK - look, it's hard, it would be much easier face to face and it would help to know your DH. You are currently a SAHM, have a young baby, a small child and are clearly feeling a bit frustrated. I feel sorry for you tbh as it doesn't sound like this is what you would have chosen. However, it is what it is, for now.

You are very young (I am Envy!!), you are looking at this from a very 'young' pov, you really have to start looking at it from a 'Mum' POV. Really - just how feasible is it to be a p Fashion Photographer be? It is a one in a million job - it's hard to get into and that's with a lot of skill, a lot of contacts and without the ties of a young family.

Even without the kids & DH to consider - it's pie in the sky, sure aim for the moon but think about the stars... it can't be 'Top Fashions Photographer' or nothing. Even if you were single you'd still need to put a roof over your head, eat, pay the leccy and thus need a back up plan.

If I were you, I'd get out there, take photos - get involved as much as you can. See if you can get to some Fashion events & take photos, build up your portfolio...

See how you go. Plan to start Uni when DD is 3 or so. You'll still be enviably young :)

ViviPru · 31/10/2011 14:17

haha, wordfactory I think the ambition element can't be underestimated, but (and I can only speak from my own PoV) what REALLY sorts the wheat from the chaff when it comes to creative wannabees is those who appreciate commercialism.

As others have mentioned, only the minuscule percentage of the elite practitioners get to work on those dream photography assignments/splash paint around their garrets/pen verse after verse of contemplative poetry, but what pees me off about creative higher education is that not enough emphasis is placed on the reality that MANY well-paid, fulfilling careers in creative practice are attainable if you are prepared to commercialise your handwriting (be that in graphic design, fashion, photography or writing). The OP might aspire to shoot Karen Elson for Vogue in New York, and this may be pie in the sky, but there are masses of opportunities for photographers in middle-market fashion retail. I'd love to create quirky pen-and-ink doodles of woodland creatures all day, but that's not going to pay my bills. I am a commercial designer for retail and that allows me to essentially draw pictures all day but in a commercial context. I'm also self-employed now and when (if) DCs do come along, my work is flexible and could fit around them.

Which brings me to another point others have missed. Suppose the OP is successful, then working as a freelance photographer could be very commensurate with family life, as it is for two of my favourites, Tracy Morter and Emma Bradshaw. In fact OP, you'd be well advsed to gen up on them both. They are both living the life you aspire to.

ShhhhhGoBackToSleep · 31/10/2011 14:18

I'm sorry to be negative, but have you really thought this through? You will be paying out ~£15k on course fees over the degree plus ~ £15k on nursery for DD plus out of school club for your DS plus £10k on equipment, and all because you want to be a top photographer?

How are you going to combine being available at the drop of a hat to travel to wherever the work is with childcare? Not seeing your children for days/weeks because a lot of work suddenly came up?

Have you looked at the stats for all the graduates of the course (not just the super duper one who succeeded, there are two people from my course who earn £100k+ I can assure you that the rest of us don't!)

To be brutally honest I don't blame your DH for being negative, you are asking him to spend £40k on a pipe dream. If you really have the talent and drive to succeed you don't need the degree, you will be able to make it happen on your own. None of the photographers I know who are successful have degrees.