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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have a very healthy respect for the 4 women I work with who have decided not to have children?

183 replies

Perriwinkle · 29/10/2011 22:11

Just because I think that in a world where it is almost expected that women who are who either married or in settled relationships should have children, and that it's the logical next step to absolute fulfillment in life, they are not bowing to the pressure from either society or their families and are just pleasing themselves.

They are not focussed and driven career women either who are relentlessly climbing the ladder and have put family plans on the backburner, they just don't want children.

I don't know why but I just find it rather refreshing.

OP posts:
emkana · 29/10/2011 22:13

I dunno, I think fair enough their choice,, but I wouldn't really regard it as an achievement.

squeakyfreakytoy · 29/10/2011 22:14

YANBU, and I wish more people could be as respectful, but can I just say, (from my own personal experience), dont assume that they dont want children.

Its much easier than trying to explain that you cant have them.

Popbiscuit · 29/10/2011 22:14

Agreed, OP. I think the world needs more women like that.

LaurieFairyCake · 29/10/2011 22:14

There are lots of people who don't want children, maybe you don't meet many.

I've never had any but am a foster carer and I won't have any now - not really career driven, I just think a lot of people do it for the wrong reasons.

It's just not for me. I love foster dd but I am hoping that one day she will go off to college as so few children have good outcomes once they've lived in care.

Bethshine82 · 29/10/2011 22:16

No, it is great they have stood up to the undoubted pressure and questioning!

As soon as you start seeing someone seriously people say "when are you getting engaged?" Then it's "When are you getting married?" followed quickly by "When are you having a baby?" And then if you have a baby you then get "When are you having another one?"

I know it's a bit of a tangent but I find that rude. I never ask anyone when they are having a baby - it's their business and for all I know they might be trying but struggling and asking when they are planning on starting a family might be a sore point.

motherinferior · 29/10/2011 22:16

YANBU, very definitely. They very much have achieved, I think; Good Women, in our culture, have children. Good Women are Mothers. And so we all sign up for parenthood, whether or not it will actually enhance our lives or we'll be any good at it....

LaurieFairyCake · 29/10/2011 22:16

I also think from a feminist perspective that few women can be truly free (or it's much harder) once they've had children.

Having children for so many women doesn't seem like much of a free 'choice'.

MrBloomsNursery · 29/10/2011 22:18

I don't understand why people find things like this refreshing Hmm.

As far as I am aware, women have children for 2 reasons: 1. It's a mistake. 2. They want children.

I've never heard anyone say "Oh I'm having a child because my MIL wants me to".

It's hardly a new concept; I bet there's loads of women who don't want children.

Original poster
Perriwinkle · 29/10/2011 22:19

I don't look upon their choice as an "achievement" but I do respect their choice.

Equally I feel that if women like me didn't have children where would the world be but I think I respect them because all too often people have children simply because they think that's what's expected of them and many do have them for the wrong reasons - i.e to patch up a failing relationship, please family, to give an existing child a sibling etc.

I do know all of these women very well, as friends too, and have done for over 10 years. I know that their decision not to have children is a life choice and not something that was imposed on them by infertility.

OP posts:
squeakyfreakytoy · 29/10/2011 22:22

As far as I am aware, women have children for 2 reasons: 1. It's a mistake. 2. They want children

I would disagree. Many women have children because they feel, as a woman, it is what society expects of them. That without a child, a woman is not a complete woman. Believe me, it happens a lot more than anyone will admit.

These are also quite often the women who turn out to be crap mothers, because they didnt really want a child, they just felt that because they could, they should.

mjlovesscareypants · 29/10/2011 22:22

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worraliberty · 29/10/2011 22:23

I kind of understand what you are saying...though I'm not sure how you know about their fertility.

On the other hand, how old are they?

Some women are adamant they don't want kids....then they get to a certain age (sometimes late 40's/early 50's) and have them.

I'm not sure I know anyone who felt pressured into having children but I do know a few who got pregnant by accident and felt pressured into giving birth.

Original poster
Perriwinkle · 29/10/2011 22:23

As a parent myself I have congratulated them all on their choice and told them that I think it's the right one. However, other colleages both female and male have told them variously, it's a shame, they don't know what they're missing out on and they'll probably change their minds later on!! Shock

OP posts:
bibbitybobbitybloodyaxe · 29/10/2011 22:23

Are you being unreasonable about what though?

Sevenfoldedbloodybodies · 29/10/2011 22:23

depends how old they are tbh. all very well to say that when you are past child bearing age, but other wise they can change their mind at any time, so it is just words

wherearemysocka · 29/10/2011 22:25

Nothing like making a considered decision with your partner about your plans for your life and whether or not you want to revolve it around the needs of someone else...and to be effectively told that you're being silly and you'll come around to the right way (ie their way) of thinking soon enough.

mjlovesscareypants · 29/10/2011 22:25

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Message withdrawn

Soups · 29/10/2011 22:25

I'm with MrBloomsNursery, I don't understand why it's refreshing [hcofused] Some women want children, some don't, some have them unplanned (it's how I started). I don't find it refreshing if someone tells me they do or don't want children.

It's not something I question men or women on though, you never know the story behind why they don't have children, and whether they want to tell it.

MrBloomsNursery · 29/10/2011 22:26

I don't understand why it's something that you should congratulate them for though...I can't put my finger on it, it just seems strange. Do you wish you had made the same decision in your life?

Original poster
Perriwinkle · 29/10/2011 22:27

These women are my friends outside of work as well as my colleagues. We share a lot and I would know if they were infertile because they're not the types to bottle stuff like that up. They'd want to talk about it and want advice from those of us with children if they had problems like that.

They are all late 30s, early 40s and have been with their respective partners for a very long time and are all adamant they'll not change their minds. All I can do is take them at their words at this point. If they do change their minds it'll be their choice again but for now I respect the choice they've made.

OP posts:
WhoIsThatMaskedWoman · 29/10/2011 22:27

As someone who's always known I wanted children, I always believe women who say they don't, and respect that choice completely. OTOH it is a fact that some women end up changing their mind, some were lying in order to avoid talking about infertility, and a few (not your friends I'm sure) are lying at work to improve their work prospects).

Popbiscuit · 29/10/2011 22:28

I think perhaps some women think better to do it than regret-not, rather than vice-versa?

kitya · 29/10/2011 22:28

How old are these women? if they are still in their thirties, give it afew years and you may find that at least one of them has given birth. What people say, when it comes to having children, and what they actually end up doing can be two different things. Im in my 40's and never had the opportunity to have children in a stable loving relationship so, I never did. I would never say I never wanted them though. I ached for them. Still do. When I was in my late thirties I knew four women who said they never wanted them but, if you scratched the surface, it was their husbands who werent all that fussed. Turned out all four of them were lucky enough to have their babies in their early forties. Very lucky.

I think what Im trying to say is, they might tell you that but, its probably not true. I find it hard to believe that in one workplace four women say they never want children.

LaurieFairyCake · 29/10/2011 22:29

For lots of reasons mj. Because they are then defined by society and judged as mothers in a way that fathers rarely are.

Because the disparity between men and women means that in terms of pay women who have children never make up the difference.

They lose out on pensions leading to a poorer, and longer old age.

The impact of having children on women in this capitalist society is huge. In a negative way.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 29/10/2011 22:29

Agree about the 'congratulations'... that's very odd. Why would you do that, OP?