To have a very healthy respect for the 4 women I work with who have decided not to have children?

[Perriwinkle]

Just because I think that in a world where it is almost expected that women who are who either married or in settled relationships should have children, and that it's the logical next step to absolute fulfillment in life, they are not bowing to the pressure from either society or their families and are just pleasing themselves.

They are not focussed and driven career women either who are relentlessly climbing the ladder and have put family plans on the backburner, they just don't want children.

I don't know why but I just find it rather refreshing.

I don't have children, and honestly, I understand your reasoning and it's great you respect people who make different life choices, but if you congratulated me, I'd feel so hugely patronised.

I don't really want kids anyway, but also I have mental health issues which I am terrified of passing on/not being able to cope with kids and problems at the same time. So part of the reason why I won't have kids is one which is really quite sad for me. Of course I tell people I just don't want them. I don't think most people would bother explaining exactly why.

Agree with Yellow. I don't have kids, don't want them and, incidentally, am functionally infertile in the sense that I would need medical intervention in order to conceive. The whole "you'll change your mind" makes me grit my teeth but being congratulated for it is just as patronising. I'm not rallying against society's expectations, I just don't like kids. So ner.

Slinking - I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, read my post properly and you will see. I do find self-obsessed people boring though and I have found some childfree by choice people incredibly patronising and ready to offer their 'wisdom' on child-rearing at any given opportunity

But of course there are patents like that too.

I do think that for me, parenthood has made me a better person and experiencing the love I have as a mother is amazing.

Parents
Not patents!

Toboldlygo - your choice is completely fair enough and it is crap if people
Patronise you for it.

Actually I think many parents are very, very selfish in the sense of 'my child/family first'. It may not be a selfishness about them as an individual but they - and I'm sure I'm as guilty of it in some ways - are quite prepared to say 'I don't care about the wider group, My Child Comes First'.

im nonplussed as to whether anyone chose to have children
it is their personal,private decision
they dont need my respect or approbation for not having children

I didn't want children but fell pg whilst using contraception with dd, dh convinced me not to terminate, then I had ds as I wanted a sibling for her. I love them completely but I don't particularly enjoy my life. I find children extremely life limiting and I'm exhausted stressed and irritable a lot of the time. They do give me brief moments of joy but they're bloody hard work, it's relentless and demoralising. To be totally honest I think I was happier before, mine and dhs relationship was far better pre dcs.

I think I've got used to it now but it's taken several years. Prior to that since dds birth I've been in a permanent state of shock and bewilderment, grieving for my old life

Sorry to hear that you're struggling minx - I think it's really brave of you to share it on here. You are not the only parent who feels like this, be assured of that! I hope you have someone you can talk to about this in real life

i had never met any woman who didnt want to have kids. i desperately wanted kids and i was on ivf.

then i met a wonderful group of women, 4 of which had never had nor wanted children. they made me look at the world with fresh eyes and know that people without kids can (and do) lead wonderfully fulfilled lives. this was so far out of my realms of knoweledge they might as well have come from the moon.

I am pleased that 10 yrs later i still count on these ladies as my friends and even though i was blessed with a dd, all of our viewpoints are still valid.

I find the implication of some posts on here that choosing not to have children means you've chosen a life of big houses, holidays etc utterly maddening, brainless and unimaginative. Many many childless people are out there doing important and fascinating work, fulfilling their personal potential, and couldn't give a toss about tidy houses. I'm also guessing they are not remotely interested in MN or sites like The Childfree life as they don't define themselves by the fact they haven't got kids. And I also think they probably just ignore idiots who judge them for their choices and don't make a big song and dance like some childfree people seem to.

Surely all reasonable decisions women make about their own fertility and family life are due a "healthy respect"?

Some people who don't have kids are selfish knobs.

Some people who do have kids are selfish knobs.

Generally those on both sides are those who'd be selfish knobs if they suddenly woke up and had no kids but 47 gerbils.

I was infertile for years - didn't want a round of applause for it, likewise - didn't want judging (and I will ALWAYS get very very fucked off at those who like to stereotype, judge, bash and shit upon the childless). So I'm pregnant now (assuming scan tomorrow is ok - one thing I've learnt is to never ever rely on things going ok now lol)... doesn't make me a better person, doesn't make me a worse person - yet to some people it does, and that's bloody wrong that my worth in their eyes increased or decreased as a sperm met an egg.

Why is it STILL acceptable to judge ANY woman (childless/free or a mother) based on her reproductive status? And it's other bloody WOMEN doing the judging!

what do you want, a medal????

at 47 gerbils.

I think the childfree get an incredibly duff deal - not only are they constantly harrangued about when they are going to have kids, but they also get told "you'll change your mind" very condescendingly too. Add to that covering everyone else's maternity leave, having to work all the holidays because "they don't have families" (really??) and always staying late because everyone else has bogged off early to go pick up the little darlings from nursery.... And you get why they are annoyed with the parents.

The usual arguments of "Well our children will pay for the childfree in their old age" only really apply if you believe that 1) the government will be coughing up ANYTHING when they get that old and 2) that the children currently being produced are going to be productive and contributory members of society. And frnakly considering 1 in 5 leaves school unable to read I'm just not that convinced that they will all be paying their way...

I'm glad the OP respects their choices and doesn't dump on them. Well done OP!

I didn't exactly say "hey congratulations!!" to these women, I just said good on you for not having kids just because you think you should and because a worrying number of people seem to assume it's the next logical step to take towards complete life fulfilment once you are in a stable relationship. I also said that in my view having kids is not the bowl of cherries that some would have you believe it is.

I feel that the people who would feel "patronised", "irritated" or "pissed off" by me saying this to them are more than likely the ones who do not have children but deep down really wish they did. That's sad and if I knew that any of these women felt like that I wouldn't ask them. I know that's not the case with any of these women though.

My work colleagues didn't turn a hair when I said it and it wouldn't bother them because none of them are harbouring any simmering resentments or inner torment. They are totally ambivalent about chidlren, they're quite happy to talk about them, make all the right noises and ask polite questions when someone brings one into the office or to vist with them, babysit and buy gifts when their friends and family members give birth to them. They are not secret child haters who moan about babies and children screaming in restaurants, or bitch about their colleagues who have children wanting time off in school holidays.

They're just nice, normal, well balanced friendly women who happen not to want children of their own out of personal choice.

None of them are the sort to take umbrage just because someone asks them a question and they are all the sort who would tell someone to butt out if they thought they were overstepping the mark.

Out of personal choice I have only one child and over the years many people have asked me if I'm planning to have any more. I don't get remotely offended by the question and am quite happy to tell them that we've only ever wanted one. Sure it's none of their business to ask but so what if they ask? I know a lot of people in my situation do get deeply offended by the question but again, that's usually because it touches a raw nerve with them because they do want more children but can't.

My colleagues aren't offended/insulted and don't feel patronised because, like me, they're not bothered by the question or the answer.

Right, so now you're saying that the reason people feel patronised is cos they secretly want children?

You're really sort of proving people's point, you know?

I don't know anyone who had children because they felt they should, I do know people who are constantly asked about not having them, which is not the same thing.

Personally I understand people that have one child far less than those that have none, and I don't really get more than six. (Have to say I've never met a selfless parent of one) Having more than one gives a child a better foundation for social dynamics and more than six must mean no attention at all.

Mostly when I think about having/not having children I think of addicts who shouldn't have them and desperate people that can't.

YANBU Perri, to respect your colleagues' thoughtfulness and imagination and also to choose IABU to post in - otherwise it wouldn't have run to 7 pages! I think Rufus and Jasmine's honest posts further upthread are a good eg of why people do deserve some respect for making active choices to go against the flow and think carefully about whether they want to become parents, whether for mental health or for environmental reasons.
This is often going to be a difficult choice because some of those people will have the nagging doubt (what if i change my mind when its too late?) but stick by their convictions anyway. The women I know who have decided not to have children are living fulfilling lives and have complex reasons for not having children which they have thought through very carefully and I would say selflessley. The irony being that they are probably the kind of people who would be very consciencious parents were it to happen by accident.

Did you really say all that to them? Are you sure although they said nothing, they didn't roll their eyes or something. Just sounds a strange, long winded thing to say. You still will never know though their true reasons for their positions, not saying that they ever did or do want kids but you can't be totally sure the decision was always totally theirs.

I never had a real urge but knew the strong love I had felt for very close nieces and nephews was overpoweringly strong so guess I just didn't want to miss out and never experience it, would have hated to go through life regretting not having kids. The fact that my first was unplanned is probably another reason I had children. Tbh, I'm glad I didn't continue my whole life down that road of work, partying, nice holidays, being self indulgent - I think i would have been bored though obviously you can break away from the norm and do something completely different with your life but not many of us do.

runningwild are you for real?? IMHO it is more likely to be parents who are self absorbed etc., they are the ones who have egotistically created 'mini me's' and often pretty much abandon elderly relatives in favour of their 'little fambily'. They are not selfless, they are biologically programmed to favour and look after their own offspring. If they were selfless they would be giving money to children in Africa not buying nice clothes for their own children. I am childfree by choice and it is annoying when people patronisingly assume you would secretly like to be a Mother. Sorry, actually I can think of little worse and have felt this viscerally since childhood! And no I don't have a high powered career, I have passions, interests, campaigns, politics, animals, friends, travelling a life! So there ;-)

I really don't believe that women in the west have children because 'society expects that of them.' They either wanted to have them, chance occurred or they don't want them. Neither is it an achievement or some sort of victory flag for all women independant or otherwise if some women choose not to procreate.

Why is it 'refreshing?' Would you find it equally as fresh if a man announced he didn't want children? Probably not, because it's a given that a man has the right to make that choice, since i matter-of-factly expect intelligent women to be able to make choices about the their lives, I wouldn't find such a statement of a decision refreshing or otherwise. It would just be a statement of a decision by a person.

You found this refreshing because you yourself have formed the belief that most women want children, so this other different point of view was new to you and thus 'refreshing'.