To have a very healthy respect for the 4 women I work with who have decided not to have children?

[Perriwinkle]

Just because I think that in a world where it is almost expected that women who are who either married or in settled relationships should have children, and that it's the logical next step to absolute fulfillment in life, they are not bowing to the pressure from either society or their families and are just pleasing themselves.

They are not focussed and driven career women either who are relentlessly climbing the ladder and have put family plans on the backburner, they just don't want children.

I don't know why but I just find it rather refreshing.

Sure, anecdotally people on this threads careers are fine.

It's just that statistically its not.

Also there is still massive discrimination against women who have children or are child bearing age in the workplace. Sure, most people don't go to tribunal but it exists a lot more than is reported.

I just think it's not realistic to think choices stay static.

Put it this way, I had a boss once who congratulated me and my co-worker for being single... I found that intrusive and pointless.

Great - does that mean we can have more babies to balance out those that have chosen not to!!

Good on anyone who gets on and lives their life as they'd like, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else ;) I don't see people who decide to be childless as not bowing to the social norm, they just don't want children. Reverse the situation, people who want children are not doing it because that's what society expects, they want children.

No, the social norm is that women - proper women - have children. Look at all these assertions that the silly girls will change their minds and come to their senses...

I'm with mjlovesscareypants. My life was great before children, now it's even more magical. I've always known I wanted children. Society and family did not force this choice on me... I waited until I had my education, travelling and rotten relationships behind me, found a caring, loving partner and settled down. Most of my family had given up on me ever producing a child by this point and I think had assumed I was barren. After all, at the age I produced a child, my mother had produced 7 and was a grandmother. But I digress.....

Neither of my brothers (both married and in their 40s) have any children and neither of them or their wives wanted any. It's fair enough.

Maybe if I look at them all again when they're 60 they won't all be childless but knowing them all as I do I can't see which one of them it would be who does have them after all.

Perhaps I agree with you to a certain extent Kitya that I too find it hard to believe that there would be 4 women who do not want children in an office with just 13 women. Perhaps that's why I find it so refreshing.

In fact 2 other women in teh office don't have children either. One is mid 50s and I don't know her all that well so don't know if this was a choice that she made or one that was imposed on her by infertility and the other is single and 36 and says that she's not mad on the idea of children but she could be open to it if she met the right person.

Perriwinkle Have you checked the water cooler for Bromide?

I totally agree motherinferior. There is a lot of smuggery (if that's not a word it is now) amongst some of the women with children in my office. They are the very ones who have told them to their faces that they will change their minds when they come to their senses.

And objectively, really, who's having the nicer life? Really? The one where you get to make active choices about how you spend your time, and whether you really want to be with your partner (uncluttered by the issues of co-parenting) and how much sleep you get and which books you read?

Like I say, my mutated life does work, often very pleasurably, for me. But that's not to say it is in any way a 'better' life than those of my friends who very happily had themselves sterilised.

Confused by this post. Why wouldn't you respect choices they had made and why do you feel the need to tell everyone what a healthy respect you have?

You could be onto something there worraliberty just totted up and out of 23 people in the entire office (men and women) 10 are childless, although 2 of them definitely won't remain that way and have said they do want children in the future if possible.

Perhaps we're a new breed of environmentally sound people!

YANBU There are forums out there for people who choose not to have children so obviously there are some women who do choose not to have children and don't change their minds.

Because we are supposed to feel pity, cerealqueen, for the fact that once they change their minds (as they inevitably will, driven by the imperatives of their biology) they may have missed out on the opportunity for the very special experience of parenthood.

cerealqueen if you're confused I suggested you jog on and find a board less challenging.

(Nothing prepared me for the sheer horror and panic of a newborn, that's for sure.)

although 2 of them definitely won't remain that way and have said they do want children in the future if possible

They'll be the ones who bring their own bottled water

I always said I wasn't going to have children. I changed my mind though, because I thought I'd probably regret not having them more than I would having them, if you see what I mean.

I'm still not sure, to be honest. Obviously I love them dearly and wouldn't be without them, but if I'd not had them, would I still have been happy? Probably.

what I really hate is when people ask me if I have children and I say no without fail, they say oh well its still not too late!!! everytime, even yesterday at the hairdressers. Ive never, ever replied that its because I never wanted them as that would be a lie. I'd like to see their reactions if I did though.