Just gone postal at this woman for making out I was an abusive parent.

[thatgirlsevil]

As the title suggests...I've just gone postal at a woman who decided to follow me down the street and comment on my parenting techniques.

It started off when myself and 3YO DS left a shop after I refused to buy him a treat on the basis of his naughty behaviour (not listening, running off)...he was doing the whole I'm-not-walking collapsed jelly legs thing and I was pretty much hoisting him along and chastising him through gritted teeth (holding him by the wrist but not applying any pressure)...but yes at some points dragging him (no skin touching the floor, just heels) as he protested and tried to resist, although not hurting him to be absolutely clear.

When I let him go he was throwing himself on the concrete and I tried getting down to his level and talking to him but he was too 'in the zone' to see reason...as I shouted at him... exasperated by this point and getting quite upset, he ran off and almost ran into the side road so I grabbed him around the waist, scooped him up as he kicked out and protested and I shouted at him, quite loud...no swearing or horrible words, just general chastising.

The final straw came when I let him down and he bit my middle finger...HARD and broke the skin and it started bleeding quite heavily. I grabbed his hand and at this point started walking very fast across the road to the other side and shouting at him. He was half running beside me and now sobbing...finally moving his legs though because he knew he had totally crossed a line and done something completely unnacceptable.

At this point a woman (mid twenties) sprinted after me and tells me she has been watching out the shop window and it was really terrible to watch...she tells me I should be calm and get down to his level and keeps repeatedly saying how she had been watching and she was sure others were watching and feeling very concerned for the little boys welfare. She said I was making a scene and again, people were watching....and then she actually asked me something along the likes of WHY WAS I TRYING TO GET HIM HOME SO FAST...WHAT WOULD HAPPEN THEN?

It was at this point that I ABSOLUTELY FLIPPED at the suggestion DS might be in danger...and started shouting who the hell was she judging me on the basis of seeing 5 minutes of my parenting at it's worst...I asked her what she was suggesting I might do to DS and how she thinks I could be handling the situation better without spouting Supernanny #101 rhetoric.

I said that I doubted she would have the brass neck to approach a parent who actually was doing something like hitting or swearing at their child in the street.

I basically told her she was an idiot who didn't have a clue what was actually occurring and I clearly needed support rather than condemnation right now. I also said how her tackling me and undermining me in front of DS was idiotic in the extreme when he was clearly having a tantrum, a natural common thing.

I showed her my hand and was shouting about how he'd bit me extremely hard...hence my whipping him across the road and him being in tears. I was ranting now...out of anger, embarrassment and just general exasperation...and I was getting noticeably teary.

I asked her if she had children herself and she hesitated before saying "umm...yes"...it seemed like a lie but maybe she was just floored by my outburst.

She wasn't trying to help me at all...it was as though she wanted me to feel ashamed of how I'd handled the situation and of course I could have handled it better, but at no point did I apply force or hit or swear at DS. I never do.

I burst into tears when I got back home, I was sobbing for myself, DS and I started thinking that the people who witnessed the events must think I'm a fucking monster. I would probably be ashamed to walk down that street again because the fact that this woman thinks I would hurt DS makes me so bloody furious.

I actually asked DS if Mummy had hurt him and he said "No...I was being naughty and I'm sorry for biting you"...I said, please tell me if I hurt you, I'm sorry if I made you feel frightened...he said "I wasn't, I just wanted a treat...but I know I'd been naughty."

I am still so fucking upset. I feel like a shitty shitty Mum.
(sorry it's long)

I had almost a bottle of wine on a Thursday night out with friends just think

You might need to actually pick up a younger child that refused to walk but not a 3 yo surely? I don't think you ever need to drag a child. If you have shopping and the child is too young to understand that they need to do as they are told then take a pushchair to strap them in.
If dd refused to walk at that age I would tell her what treats I was taking off her until she decided to walk. After I'd followed through and there were a few times she lost half her toys, had no tv all day, early bedtime, lost pocket money etc etc she got the message and started doing what I asked her first time.
I've snapped at times of course and shouted but immediately felt bad. I don't think sustained shouting of this type is normal. If you lose your rag you take a deep breath and compose yourself. If you can't do that it IS concerning imo.

Unbelievable. You do know that 3 year olds and 4 year olds have tantrums?
A pushchair for a 4 year old?
These threads where people come on and say ooh I never had to do that with my child make me so angry
Bully for you

Witch when my son is in The Dreaded Tantrum Zone I could be threatening to take away everything he owns and he would not get up and walk.

No an NT four year old is old enough to know that if they don't do as they are told there will be consequences so you wouldn't need to strap them in a pushchair. I was talking about what I would do if I had a young toddler that wouldn't walk.

Fearful Yank ime if you actually do take away everything they own a few times they will take the nicer option. Have you tried actually doing it?

And for the record witchyhills threads were people say that you have no option but to drag your child along the ground and repeatedly shout at them make me quite angry too.
The OP asked what she could have done differently. I answered.

OP I guarantee your son has forgotten all about this now, but you can't, partly cos it's clearly not in your nature to get so angry (rightly so) with your son being a brat of potentially catastrophic proportions, and partly cos you asked on here if you were BU.
BUT as the old mother-and grandmother- that I am (4 kids, eldest nearly 23, two youngest very SLD 13 n 14 yr olds both bigger than me, plus having brought up 2 step kids too) I can assure you you have nothing to worry about.
We all lose it at times, our kids can be the most vile horrid little sods in the world but we love 'em anyway, don't always necessarily like them, but always love them unconditionally despite that.
Anyone who doesn't see this was just you letting him know you'd had enough of his brattishness either hasn't got kids or is remembering through rose tinted glasses when their kids were young uns
And that woman...well, forget that. She doesn't know you, just made very misguided assumptions based on a snapshot in time, easy done but she should've minded her own beeswax. After all your son wasn't being harmed.

Have another beer on me!

ChippingInToThePumpkinLantern - I'm not stressing, honest. It happened, I allowed my emotions to get the better of me (with DS and confrontation lady) and today has been a good day.

I'll keep replying because I don't want anybody to think I'm not actually asking for genuine advice and taking something from this.

TheBestWitch - I think strapping a perfectly capable 3.7 year old in a pushchair day in, day out for fear they MIGHT have an off day is extreme...as I've said, it was out of character but it was pretty epic, fuelled by tiredness in retrospect. I also don't think my shouting was silly and ill-judged but I think 'abnormal' is a bit much.

Bestwitch that would not have worked for my SN dd, no understanding or concept. Its only now she is 4.5 that she vaguly understands time out. No not all children are at the same stage cognitively, some like adults are more advanced than others.

Thank goodness for my pushchair, used it right up until dd was 3.5 because of the tantrums, she has gotten a lot better now, she cannot fit into her pushchair now she is 4.7 years.

They might not care during the tantrum but they will care after and they will consider next time whether they want to lose all their stuff for however long or just walk. Most kids will walk.

I mean I think my shouting WAS silly and ill-judged but not normal/abnormal is a bit heavy a description.

Why would you need to strap a 3.7 yo in a pushchair? An nt 3.7 yo should be capable of understanding consequences.
I call it abnormal because I've never seen an adult repeatedly shouting at a child and dragging them. If I did I would think they had lost it big time - which you did.
But people on here saying it is an inevitable part of parenting are wrong in my opinion.

Of course I've tried it BestWitch ! :) He could lose everything he owns and it would still happen.

I'm with Piglet on this; I can do whatever the 'rule book' says re; my boys but the only rule we have is that there aren't any rules.

Just thinking, bloody good job that interfering woman wasn't in my Asda last saturday week....Mwhahahaha, she'd have dined out on it for a month [evil grin emoticon!!!]

Well if my child would rather lose their toys, tv, computer, pocket money, late bedtimes and any other treats until they learned to do as they were told I would let them tbh.
No need to repeatedly shout and drag them which is only going to make the tantrum worse imo - ditto smacking.

TheBestWitch, I think you must have been blessed with a child who has never really done the 'big tantrum' thing.

This wasn't a case where the child says petulantly "I don't want to walk mummy" (in which case threatening to take away toys/treats etc works a treat) this was a child who had already gone beyond that and was having a massive epic tantrum (to be so beside himself, angry and frustrated he actually bit his mum's hand, something he had never done before). His body would have been coursing with adrenalin, he wasn't thinking straight and there is no way saying "if you don't walk now you will not get a bedtime story" (even if she had said this 100 times before and diligently followed through) would even have registered in his addled mind.

The OP knows she handled it badly, but as parents we all sometimes handle things badly. But to come up with the suggestion that she should have threatened no TV, and that would have been the end of it, is frankly, ludicrous!

FWIW OP, as you asked, here are two alternative options you could have considered:

1. carry your DS (kicking, screaming, biting) in one of the safe holds described here away from the scene (after leaving your shopping with the shopkeeper for safekeeping), trying to sooth him, until he had calmed down, at which point cuddle, talk about what happened etc or
2. been prepared to stay in the shop with him, throwing his tantrum, repeatedly saying calmly "we are not having any fudge. we are staying here until you are prepared to leave the shop walking properly" and following through. It may have taken up to an hour, you may have been asked to leave by the shop owner, you may have upset the other customers.

bestwich not all kids think the same or are on the same wavelength, you cannot ignore individual differences in children. Some 4 year olds are very advanced, some are still developmentally younger and will catch up in time.

DD has had the full screaming, snot all over the face, rolling on the floor tantrums when younger but she soon learned that if she didn't calm down and do as she was told it would be her losing out not me.

I have a 4 yo in nursery. I have dr/dentist appointments. What makes you think I don't have to be anywhere on time?

OK assuming the 3.7 yo in the op isn't able to understand consequences I would go for the firemans lift option over dragging any time. And the repeated shouting does show a massive loss of control. It sounds like the OP went more 'postal' at the child than the woman.

Having had, in the past, 3yr old twins both having full throated full on lying down kicking and screaming temper tantrums in the street at the same time because they have been refused things, and me in the middle also crying and screaming at them like a banshee, my heart goes out to you OP. It is hard to handle, and most mums, if they are honest, have been there, done that , bought the tee shirt!
You did well not to smack or swear, and the lady concerned should have either offered practical advice/help, or butted out, not give you a lecture on good parenting.

They can't actually hear you when they're in the tantrum zone. I mean, they can hear you, but are too upset to register what you're saying.

BestWitch DS could lose everything and still be screaming on the sidewalk while I was standing there holding bags of groceries and wanting desperately to go home. If I ignored him he would get up and run. Sometimes you have to move them.