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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel disappointed that religious songs and stories are being introduced to this toddler group?

460 replies

neolara · 05/10/2011 18:40

OK. I'll come clean and admit it's a toddler group that is run in a church, headed up by the vicar's wife and staffed by volunteers from the church community. It is a completely fantastic toddler group. It's wildly popular, very friendly, lovely, lovely volunteers who make cups of tea and hand out biscuits and chat to all the mums. Really, IMO you couldn't ask for anything more from a toddler group. However, today they sang a couple of religious songs in amongst twinkle twinkle and started telling stories about Jesus. This is a new development and looks like a clear change of policy.

Up until today this toddler group was not obviously a "christian group" with no mention of Jesus or God, although families attending the group were invited along to child services and there was always information about the many and various activities the church organizes. I'm pretty convinced that the vast majority of families who go to the group are not attached to the church - they are just a random cross section of the people in our city. They go because it's a great group.

Now obviously, it is a church group, run by Christians and they are perfectly entitled to run it in whatever way they want. The running of the group has recently been taken over by someone new. She is extremely nice and seems very welcoming.

But as a non-believer, I felt very uncomfortable when the singing and stories are happening. I think this is partly because I just think the whole thing is nonsense (sorry to those who do believe, but I just do), partly because I see it as "indoctrinating" (I know this is only because I don't believe - if I agreed with the views I wouldn't see it in this way) and also because it makes me feel that if I don't believe then maybe I shouldn't be attending. I think that as the kids are so young, realistically they won't understand the stories or songs, so the fact that they are now happening is basically a way of signalling to the parents that this is now a religious group. Obviously, I can choose not to attend and this is something I may end up doing. All of which makes me sad because it has been such a fantastic, inclusive, toddler group in the past. I've been going to it for the past 7 years and it's been pretty great for all of that time.

Do you think it is worth mentioning to the (lovely) woman who runs the group the effect of introducing the religious element to the group? (I'd obviously leave out the bit about thinking Jesus is nonsense!) I wonder if she's even aware that by including religious songs / stories it can make it seem actively unwelcoming to those of other / or no faiths. Of course, this may be the effect that they are trying to achieve, which is obviously OK, (if sad for me!)

OP posts:
GrendelsMum · 05/10/2011 21:51

Very amused by the discovery that Lady Peter Wimsey is a vicars wife - I'm happily imagining Lord Peter as a vicar, now. Wouldn't he be awful?

also snork at NorthernLurker buying a pair of gloves and saying 'this represents Christ' each time.

Northernlurker · 05/10/2011 21:52

DeWe - dh and I do call 'I will offer up my life' 'I will offer up my cash' because our minister ALWAYS picks it for during the offering so you may not be too far out there Grin

GrendelsMum · 05/10/2011 21:53

oh, and I love that hymn too. you've got me singing it now.

DeWe · 05/10/2011 21:54

Northern. Grin

garlicScaresVampires · 05/10/2011 21:55

Northern, I find that lyric gruesome. If I ever buy anything, let alone moral certitude, with another person's blood, I shall be extremely worried about my situation.

I do hope nurseries stick to pretty flowers, livestock and angels.

banana87 · 05/10/2011 21:55

YABU. And what harm are they doing singing songs and reading stories (parables)? Your DC will one day decide for themselves whether or not to believe and I think that you should not let YOUR views get in the way.

LadyPeterWimsey · 05/10/2011 21:55

GrendelsMum - you're right, he wouldn't be any good as a vicar. But he sings all the hymns beautifully, I seem to recall.

DeWe · 05/10/2011 21:56

Oh and my opinion on "the peace" is perfectly summed up by Mrs. Beemish.

It's worth listening to.

onagar · 05/10/2011 21:56

The songs won't do any harm, but find another group that doesn't see looking after kids as a means to an end.

LeninGrad · 05/10/2011 21:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EggyAllenPoe · 05/10/2011 21:57

YANBU in that it would annoy me if the church run playgroup which is all about tea, biscuits and relatively violence free toddler socialisation started actually doing something (anything) more involving.

ultimately they are within their rights, but i prefer disorganised fun.

GrendelsMum · 05/10/2011 21:58

and he reads the lesson well in Gaudy Night. And he always makes large donations to church funds.

ivykaty44 · 05/10/2011 22:01

see I have just been over to another thread about JW and find that there is a reason they don't celebrate christmas

Christmas and Easter - pagan, pre-Jesus celebrations hijacked by "Christendom" and, therefore, not True Christianity but, actually, devil worship. Same with all sorts of things like Mother's Day, Valentine's Day, APril Fools' Day...

taken from other thread written by stressed

LynetteScavo · 05/10/2011 22:02

This is the price you pay for nice people making you cups of tea and giving you biscuits while your child rampages around making a mess for someone else to clear up.

We used to have to sing "the wise man built his house upon the rocks every week.

Wait until Christmas and they start on about the nativity!

garlicScaresVampires · 05/10/2011 22:08

They are correct, ivykaty, except about Mother's Day which was a latter-day invention. (One of miners' wives' two days a year down the pub, iirc!)

Religions propagate through syncretism; christianity's always been very good at it.

My brother an I opted for Sunday school at about 8yo! There was nothing to do on Sundays, and they had a stamp-collecting picture book thing about bible stories. Basically, it was a loyalty card with battles Grin

LadyPeterWimsey · 05/10/2011 22:09

He quotes the Bible quite impressively too. All part of being so well brought up. Grin

exoticfruits · 05/10/2011 22:18

I can only echo what the others have said-it is a church group, run by the vicar's wife and church volunteers-what do you expect?!

Either put up with it or hire a hall and start your own.

Meteorite · 05/10/2011 22:47

YABU. People of other faiths/no faith are clearly quite welcome at the group. However it's unfair to expect a church-run group to provide only secular content. It's clearly a church group and it's amazing how many people want to use the church for christenings/weddings/toddler groups but only if there's no religion involved Confused

Northernlurker · 05/10/2011 22:57

Garlic - for me it certainly isn't moral certitude, it's salvation and Jesus isn't a person. He is my Saviour.....BUT I can see how the lyric would appear if that's not your belief Grin

That's nothing to some of the old hymns............

GrimmaTheNome · 05/10/2011 23:04

Still probably not one for the toddler group though, Northern Grin

garlicScaresVampires · 05/10/2011 23:07

Thanks for that, Northern! Gosh, yes, we did all the old 'uns at my secondary school. My friends and I spent most of the first year going Shock at the verses! Sinful darkies, faithless women being whipped, unsaved children slogging barefoot to the mines ... Rousing tunes, but I do hope they've eliminated all the pompous Victorian propaganda from schools these days Grin

garlicScaresVampires · 05/10/2011 23:12

... Mind you, we then went on to translate exactly the same propaganda from Latin in classics (equally poetic, too.) Deities may change, but empire-building looks the same in any era.

This has absolutely nothing to do with OP. Sorry, OP! Must stop rambling and go to bed Blush

NestaFiesta · 05/10/2011 23:14

YABU. YABU. YABU

You are quite happy to take, take, take (nice toddler group, cups of tea) but all disapponted when the church group run in the church by the vicar's wife brings religion into it?

I have bloody seen it all now.

Did they make your toddler sacrifice a goat or are they waiting a few more weeks for that one? No? then I should imagine a few jolly action songs and some Bible stories are doing no harm whatsoever.

GrimmaTheNome · 05/10/2011 23:20

YANBU.... of course she's disappointed if something that's been perfect for her for 7 years changes. She's not asking them to change back, she knows its 'my house, my rules' - but a bit sad that she's not sure if she's still unconditionally wanted there any more. And wasn't sure what to do - well, I think LadyPeter has given good ruling on that. Smile