AIBU to want DSD to spend Christmas day with us ?

[Tillyscoutsmum]

I was going to post on step parenting but I'm feeling stupid brave, so here we go ......

DSD will be 8 this Christmas. We have her one night in the week, every other weekend and half the holidays. DH assumed when he and his ex first separated that they would alternate Christmas. However, when he asked about it (6 years ago), his ex got quite teary and said she didn't feel she could be apart from her dd on Christmas day.

So, for the last 6 years, we've had dsd from about the 19th/20th December, gone off to visit grandparents etc. and then dropped her back to her mum on Christmas Eve afternoon. We have our own "Christmas" with her at some point during those days.

DH is now starting to feel that he would like to have her for one Christmas Day whilst she still believes in the whole "Santa" thing. She has two younger half siblings here and we feel that she would really enjoy the whole Christmas morning present opening etc. with them. At the moment, she spends the day with her mum and her grandparents. There are no other children and, from what she has said, its a bit of a staid affair.

DH doesn't want to rock the boat. He and his ex have a very amicable relationship and everything works well. On one hand, he feels that we have our dc's and therefore get to enjoy the whole "magic" of Christmas and if his ex didn't have her dd with her, it would be quite miserable. At the same time though, he does want to experience it with dsd and, in reality, there is probably only a couple of years where she will still "believe".

What do you think ?

I'm not saying it's the only way to decide or that it's appropriate for everyone, but it is worth thinking about, because if there is an innocent party in a break up, it seems wrong and cruel to me to make them be without their child at Christmas, when it wasn't their behaviour which caused the relationship to end.

I would think the most innocent of all would be the children?? Maybe that's just my opinion and others may not share it, but to me, it is cruel to deprive a child of a loving parent on Christmas Day, which is a magical time of year for children based on the dynamics of the relationship break up.

My break up was messy to say the least, but I'd never play 'tit for tat' and deprive my children of spending Christmas with the parent they want to spend Christmas with.

Christmas in my house is primarily about my children, not about me. I'm sorry, but the thought of depriving my DD of her father at Christmas because of the way he treated me is cruel and self serving.

Christmas is a time for giving and it is a time for children, not a time to be thinking about who should have the children based on what one or the other parents did to instigate the break up, or not as the case may be.

I find that concept bizarre to say the least.

But in cases where the day can't be split (and I think that is the ideal), then the child will be deprived of a loving parent, be it mum or dad, either way.

It's not about playing tit for tat and obviously once a child is old enough to express an opinion, then their wished should be paramount. But where a child is too little to have an opinion, then if one parent is going to miss out, I don't think it should be the one who would have stayed in the marriage, but for the behaviour of the other person.

I'm not at all saying that someone should deprive their ex of access as a means to get back at them. We are talking about one day. It just happens to be a day that people are very fixated with and I imagine it would be very hard for a parent whose spouse has had an affair and left them, to then lose their child on Christmas day too.

Obviously, this isn't about the OP's particular circumstances, just a theoretical way to decide if mum and dad can't share the day.

Presuming that both parents are loving parents, then the child would have a great Christmas either way. That being the case, it's not wrong to also give some consideration to the adults.

My DH's ex wife ended the marriage (after a very short time) because she didn't love him anymore.
He's not a twunt - we've managed 2 DS and 20 happy years. His heart was well and truly broken by losing his baby boy.
Every minute he spent with him had to be fought over and he had done NOTHIING wrong.
She was reasonable about Xmas because she liked to be seen to be reasonable and it's a very visible celebration with lots of other family around.
It's testament to all of us (not least her 2nd husband - also now dumped!) that we have managed to stay polite over the years.
Now 21 - he has lived with us mostly for the last 5 years. His choice - it happens.

Op- you all sound very rational and lovely, well done for wanting what is best for the children.

It is perfectly reasonable to ask and, with the level of contact your DH has, alternating Xmas's could and should have been part of the order.
Unfortunately, a status quo has now been established and it is unlikely you will get it.

Why is it unlikely she will get it? Why is Ex wife the more important parent - it's just not fair and he should have the opportunity of at least 1 Christmas where his daughter opens her presents with him whilst still believing in all the magic!
I would ask - YADEFNBU.

I see your dilemma...Christmas is definitely a tough one for blended families. It's a bit easier here in France where generally the 24th is considered "Christmas" as much as the 25th...so my DSS (6) spends one of those days with his mum and her family and the other with his dad and his family. I'm not sure DSS even notices which day is which, as far as he is concerned he gets 2 Christmases including 2 lots of presents and 2 deliveries from Santa (Santa has been instructed to leave half the presents at each house).

So I was thinking a good compromise for you could be to try to get your DSD for the 24th or 26th and just do the whole Christmas thing on one of those days...presuming you had the time off work. It's only a random date after all. But if you have other kids who might be resentful about not celebrating the "real" day properly I guess it could be more complicated unless you can really sell the idea to them well...

I think it would be reasonable for ex's parents to stay at ex's one year so that DSD can share the day between both her parents. Which would mean MIL coming to stay with you for that year if she wants to see DGD. I don't think it would be fair to ask her and i also think it is very tough on a mother to not have her DC on christmas day.

From the off, ex and I shared the day. I always had them christmas eve and morning, mainly because I made the whole thing very exciting and he cba with all that (he used to pay someone to decorate his tree ffs). Ex collected them about 11am which gave me the chance to recover a bit, get the house straight ready for the hoards, get the food on properly etc. Then the kids would come back for 'lunch' which was usually about 3-4pm.

But christmas day was exhausting for me, what with waiting for them to actually go to sleep so I could fill the stockings be santa's helper and then being up at the crack of dawn to put the giant turkey in the oven, I often only got 3 or 4 hours sleep. As they got older it got so I was desperate for him to have them christmas eve so I could have a rest. He did it the once and never volunteered again.

I mean I don't think it would be fair to ask DSD what she wants - wait for her to bring it up.

I think you should ask.

My friend is a lone parent. She adores her son. Her relationship broke down after Ex behaved despicably.

She has however, shown throughout contact negotiations what a fabulous person she is by alway allowing him equal access including at Christmas. This year is his turn. She is already dreading it but the fact that she is prepared to hand her 4 yo over speaks volumes.

As adults we all have to do things we don't like/ find painful sometime. If you are part of a blended family that means spending Christmas without your child. For me it means working most years and not seeing my family at all.

Karmabeliever - that is EXACTLY the situation I was / am in with DS1 and my Ex-H. And yes, the first year that I didn't have DS1 on Christmas day, when he was 3.8yo, my DD was 7.9yo and my DS2 was just 2yo. I had to keep hiding in my bathroom because I was bawling my eyes out missing him, and then trying to repair my make-up so that I didn't ruin Christmas for my other two dc. It felt like I was being ripped to pieces all over again

But another 6 years (nearly) have passed since then - and I have got used to alternate Christmasses being the way things are. While I miss DS1, I am no longer running to hide the tears streaming down my face. I still make a stocking for DS1 - he is 'lucky' because Santa is forgetful, Santa knows he has two houses, but forgets which one he is at, so DS1 always gets a stocking at each house! DS1 is happy that he gets to be with his step-brother and half brother at his Dad's one year, and his half sister and half brothers at MY house the following year.

I am doing it for MY DS1, no matter how much it leaves an ache in my heart, it is the right thing for my son, even if it is the wrong thing for me.

I think that is very good of you to do that and I'm glad you are kind of okay with it now. I'm for you that you were put in that position in the first place and think that your ex, if he had anything decent about him at all, wouldn't have taken your child from you at Christmas, given that he was the one who behaved badly.

I'm not saying that mums are more important than dads, only that when a person has been really shabbily treated by a former partner, it seems so wrong that they get punished twice, by losing their dc at Christmas.

You are right when you say it's only one day karma. Seems alot of parents in this situation treat 24th/26th as Christmas day if they don't have their children with them on Christmas day.

The circumstances in which I split with XP are not my DD's concern, and shouldn't be either AFAIC. How can I justify to myself denying my DD the opportunity to see XP at Christmas based on how he treated me!!

Sounds like using the children to attempt to punish the XP to me by denying the DC the opportunity to see the NRP on Christmas day, and the only person who ends up losing out is the children, but like I said before, that's just the way I see it.

As HuntyCat explains very well I am doing it for MY DS1, no matter how much it leaves an ache in my heart, it is the right thing for my son, even if it is the wrong thing for me. That says it all really...putting her DS1's needs above and over her own. That is the right thing to do imvho.

Break ups are quite often not cut and dried, not black and white. I don't see why the children should suffer anymore than they already do because one parent feels justified in denying access on Christmas day because the parent in question has been hurt by the other parent when they broke up.

If I had kicked my partner out, because I fell out of love with him, should I forfeit every single Christmas with my DC for the foreseeable future so they can spend time with the partner who was dumped ie: my XP?? Would that be fair and right for my DC? To have no memories of Christmas at home? Just because I instigated the break up? Who am I attempting to please this way? Certainly not my DC!!

Is this only restricted to Christmas? Or should I forfeit Easter Sunday and the DC's birthday's too?

I thought that when parents split, decisions as to who they spend time with, when and for how long should be primarily based on what is best for the children, not primarily what is best for the wronged parent??

Do you keep your DC from their NRP at Christmas karma?

Also karma, you say 'if he had anything decent about him at all, wouldn't have taken your child from you at Christmas, given that he was the one who behaved badly.'

Perhaps the XP in those circumstances was prepared to put his own feelings to one side and concentrate on what was best for his children for the day. It doesn't mean he has nothing decent about him. It tells me he wants to spend alternate Xmas's with his DC. They are his DC as much as their mother's.

Are you really saying that a RP's desires to withhold the DC from the XP at Christmas are justifiably based on whether the XP instigated the spilt from the RP, regardless of how good a father is?? In fact, it sounds very strongly like you are saying that a NRP who instigated a split and left the family home is not a decent person, simply because they instigated the split when perhaps their DP did not want to split. By doing this, by leaving the family home, and hurting their partner, they should forfeit every Christmas for the foreseeable????

I still believe that if it was person A's decision to leave the relationship, then it is harsh to insist on having the children at Christmas too. In situations where the children have a good relationship with both parents and would be equally happy with either parent, I honestly don't believe they are being deprived of anything by spending Christmas day itself with the parent who was the innocent party in the break up. The nrp can still have other days over the Christmas period. I am thinking primarily of the times when a child is too small to really have much of an opinion, regarding who they spend Christmas with.

I did say earlier, that when a child is old enough to express an opinion, then that should be the primary consideration for both parents.

I think that if a person has behaved badly in a relationship, then it is not decent to insist on alternate Christmases, on the grounds that the dc belong to both parents. I think the decent thing to do is to not rub salt in the wound of the injured party and to leave the kids with the parent who did not behave badly.

Obviously, this isn't one size fits all. Some people will want alternate Christmases, others find a way to split the day itself (which is my personal ideal) and much depends for me on why a relationship ended. I do acknowledge that it is not always clear cut and rarely is one person entirely right and the other entirely wrong in a break up.

I must admit, that when a person has an affair and leaves the spouse and dc for another person, I find it very hard to think of them as a decent person or as a good parent. I am strongly of the belief that good parents don't cheat on their children's other parent.

For myself, I would try to split the day, but if I could not, then I would have the day with my children (if I hadn't been the one to treat my spouse badly and ruin the marriage). I would not deprive an ex of access, because that would be against the best interests of my children. He could have Boxing day. I do not believe this would be wrong for my children in any way - it would just become a new routine. If they expressed a desire to do it differently I would respect that.

I can't believe that there are people that refuse to share custody for Christmas. How unutterably selfish.

Abby, I would never put my own desires above what I felt was good for my children. However, I don't believe that spending Christmas Day (not the whole of Christmas) with one parent rather than the other would be detrimental to them in any way. So long as they could see the other parent on Christmas eve or Boxing day, I honestly think that it would just become routine. It is only wrong imo, if the children express a desire to see the other parent and the rp refuses. The ideal is to split the day, but it isn't always possible.

It is a selfish attitude wrt the ex partner. But if my husband had an affair and left me, I'd not be inclined to care about what he wanted. He would have my dc on Christmas day only if my dc wanted it to be that way.

karma I was referring more to this post -

I don't see why she is being selfish. Her ex is invited to lunch, so gets to see his dc on Christmas day. She isn't stopping him from seeing them, she is just stopping him from seeing them entirely on his terms.

She also said that if her children wanted to go to their dad's, she would let them, even though it would be very hard for her. In fact she does that with her ds.

She is sharing custody as far as I can see.

Oh, sorry. I misread that last part Abby and though that it was the other poster who let her ds go to his dad's alternate Christmases.

Oh no, I'm behind everyone that shares it all - my parents divorced when I was very young and we always spent Christmas Day with my mum and Boxing Day with my dad. We got 2 Christmas days every year, it was ace!

Personally I think splitting Christmas day itself is a fairly selfish thing to do and only really benefits the parents who want to see their kids on Xmas day and won't sacrifice a day to gain a day the following year.

A lot of step children aren't allowed to take toys, clothes, possessions between 2 houses and seeing children open presents only to be told they have to leave them to rush off to the other parent is heart breaking. Much better to share the day over alternate years. Xmas eve evening and Xmas day with one parent one year and boxing day with the other parent and then swap round the next year.