to think other mums are shit at teaching sharing

[tifflins]

My children are no angels. My parenting is far from perfect, but I do try (really hard) to teach my 3 year old DS to share his toys, not only with friends who visit our home, but strangers in the park or whatever. He finds the whole sharing concept pretty annoying tbh but I persevere. Situation today whereby my son 'borrowed' another little boys' bucket at the splash pool. The other little boy got upset and just as I was telling my DS to give the bucket back, the little boy ran off and told his grandma that a nasty monster had 'stolen' his bucket. The grandma came over at the exact time my DS was (finally) giving back the bucket and said to me in an exasperating tone and heavy sarcastic sigh 'thank you' (as if I was colluding with my DS to steal another boys toy). The boy took his bucket back and promptly dismissed and didnt play with it. Another situation on holiday with friends showed me that my friends' sons toys belonged to him and him alone, but my DS toys were supposed to be shared with this other little boy. At no point on the holiday did she encourage her son to share his toys, despite me bending over backwards to get my DS to share. I mean, for fucks sake, whats wrong with some people?! Anybody elses thoughts on this would be great.

'Are you suggesting that I ask the drunks in the town centre if they want to share my house?'

That is more daft/laughable to be honest. We are talking about kids toys...

' He picked one up as it sort of floated past, and the other child's mother immediately took it out of his hand, picked all the others up and put them in a carrier bag. Child stayed in water, toys put away. I was gobsmacked.'

That is way OTT, I have known a few like that.

Sorting out newborn or not she saw what happened so should have told her ds to give it back. If he said no he should have been offered a consequence. The OP doesn't seem to think he should have had to give it back anyway because the other child should have been 'sharing' (which in my world means offering your toys or saying yes when asked not passively accepting that someone has picked your toy up and won't give it back).
I encourage my child to share but that doesn't have to mean that the other child has the first go because they took something that wasn't theirs.

I'm particularly entertained by all the posters coming on and saying "well of course that doesn't apply to my car, that's just silly ha ha" whilst failing to accept that, to their 3yo, the toy car is their car or iPad or house. It's theirs, they want it, they're entitled to it. Other people are not.

NAh, I would have been pissed off if your 3yo son had been playing with one of MY dc's buckets - if he wants a bucket it's up to YOU take one or buy one for your DS. Just because they aren't playing with it at that precise moment, doesn't mean it's OK for anyone ELSE to play with them.

But on the flip side - if one of my dc wanted to play with YOUR ds's bucket, they would get told, in no uncertain terms, to put it DOWN as it wasn't theirs.

I wouldn't have double standards - but those are MY standards and I'd be pissed off if anyone else let their dc play with stuff I've bought or brought for MY dc to play with.

You wouldn't let the person sitting next to you (that you didn't even know) play on, say, your iPad just because YOU weren't playing with it at the time, would you? You'd have a face if someone just picked it up and started playing games on it, wouldn't you? So why is it any different for toys that belong to someone else's dc???

'sharing' is a very nebulous, abstract concept for a 3 year old.
Taking turns is a much more useful skill in helping them play nicely with other children, and can be taught as a game - his turn / now her turn / now his turn very quicklym before anyone has a chance to get upset, and then gradually lengthen the time - until they understand that in 'taking turns' you get your toy back. And give someone else's toy back.

But that is when children play together and know each other.

I'm not sure what it teaches a child if they are supposed to be happy to relinquish things that belong to them to strangers, without a murmer?

a child wouldnt necessarily KNOW/REMEMBER to ask tho, at least a young one, so had i been the op, when the grandmother came across, i would simply have apologised and explained that my child had simply picked it up as it wasnt being played with and give it back, or if she seemed nice i would have prompted my child to ask if he could have a turn with it, if they had then said yes, all well and good, if not then no big deal. and if i was the grandmother/mother of the child whose bucket it was then i would have encouraged my child to share/take turns or play together. i dont think thats unreasonable.

i certainly wouldnt get cross with a young child who has picked up one of my childs toys or demand it back straight away, i would say 'thats ...toy and can he have it back please' if my child didnt want to share, and if there was an issue i would speak to the childs parents pleasantly. it doesnt cost anything to be polite and have manners.

i think the op feels that they grandmother seemed abrupt and rude and if she was then there was no need for that, when its a simple issue to sort out.

I haven't read all the replies but really I don't see the importance of teaching a child to share a toy with somebody they don't know and will probably never see again.
My are encouraged to share with their friends when they come to play but sometimes they don't want to, and you know what, I don't force them.

I fail to see why forcing them is a good thing, they'll learn soon enough that if they don't share others won't share with them (unless you have some poor kid who is always made to share their things regardless).

It's like forcing them to say sorry when they don't mean it/want to. Saying the word means nothing unless they understand why and actually mean it.

If I just walked up to you and saw you with your new iphone and demanded that you share it with me, a stranger, would you?

I thought not!

Agree GML

Ipads are clearly a sharing-minefield!

I told a friend's youngish child that he couldn't play on my ipad when they were visiting us. I wasn't using it at the time - I just didn't particularly want it being treated as a toy. It was new at the time btw - I now think it is the best thing since sliced bread for keeping children occupied!

His parent actually overuled me and took it and started trying to download a game that he wanted to play - that I would have had to pay for!

I declined to give my password for the purchase of said game and retrieved my ipad on the basis that it needed charging.

Clearly I should have shared!

kungfupanda WTF

I would have been very unimpressed.

my 3 year old son was in the park on his bike. He got off momentairily and another child got on it. He was very upset and started crying. The other mum walked over and glared at us and said, "come on darling, the little boy has got himself very upset and wont share". My son shouldnt be expected to share his bike with a stranger in the park. The woman was at fault for thinking it was ok. If my son had got on another childs bike, I would have apologised and got him off it. In the OP's scenario, unless there were buckets provided by the pool (and therefore confusing), If my son had picked up a bucket, I would have explained that each child had bought their own and next time I would bring him one. I do encourage my children to share but in a "safe" way, i.e with friends who will give the toy back eventually. YABU, the grandma should not have had to walk over and retrieve the toy, you should have made sure the child received his toy back imediatelly. Not your sons fault at all, of course he would want to play with the bucket.

I still thinkthe OP IBU. YES I do have experience of dealing with more than one dc at a time - I have 4 dc, one is a bf baby, two of the older 3 have asd. I would STILL step in and make sure that they gave the toy straight back - WITHOUT playing with it if they hadn't ASKED the child that it belongs to FIRST. You can't ignore your older dc behaving badly just because you are looking after a younger child?!

My 7yo DS2 has asd - and is always going after 'discarded' footballs in the park - doesn't mean he won't get told off by me for touching someone else's belongings if he hasn't asked the person it belongs to. I started that as soon as he could crawl (which was 2.10yo for him, due to other added issues)

Social skills are difficult to teach. We want our children to share, but we don't want them to be walked all over either. In adult life sharing is a balance and children need to be taught to respect other people's property.

Sharing needs to be done with prior permission, otherwise it is theft.

kungfupannda - that is terrible.

I know it's hard for small children to remember that they need to ask if they want to play with something that belongs to someone else.

But it's equally as hard for them to understand that the other child will (probably) give it back when they are finished with it, especially if they have taken it without asking.

The OP says that the boy who owned the bucket became upset and she had to intervene, so it's quite clear that her son wasn't giving it back right away. She even says in her first post that "The grandma came over at the exact time my DS was (finally) giving back the bucket..."

If the grandmother was sounding exasperated and sarcastic it was probably because it took two adults to get involved before the OP's son finally gave back someone else's property.

And the OP sounds quite sarcastic herself when she says of the little boy that he "ran off and told his grandma that a nasty monster had 'stolen' his bucket." Did he really say "nasty monster" OP?

And then she chose to come onto a forum and call everyone else shit for not teaching their children to share when what she really means is they should be teaching their children to not complain when their things are taken by her son others.

If children are too young to remember to ask if they can use something they are also too young to remain unaffected when someone takes something of theirs without asking.

There is a world of difference between the baby who picked up a cup that floated past him (that mother was way OTT by the way when she packed everything up) and a toddler taking something out of another child's hands. What happened with the OP and her son is somewhere in the middle of the two.

But the right response in all three cases is to hand back the toy to the child who owns it or was playing with it (in the case of toys at playgroup etc) and depending on the age of your child you then either distract your own baby with something else or you explain to your toddler/child that "X was playing with/owns that. Why don't you play with this instead or ask X if they will let you join in with their game or take a turn when they have finished?"

I don't expect children to be perfect and understand all this at age three. But the adults should and the OP is being very cavalier in her opinions that a child's belongings are less valuable to them than an adults (probably more expensive) belongings and should therefore be available to all. Children put a value on their things that has nothing to do with how much money they cost. And she's quite rude in her assumption that any child who objects to his toy being taken has shit parents.

I agree, Takethisonehere.

It seems like we expect higher standards of tolerance and generosity from those who are least equipped to understand these concepts than we do from ourselves as adults.

I do encourage DS to share when appropriate - I am now re-thinking this on the basis that if someone came up to me on a train and stood in front of me trying to pull my ipad out of my hands, I would be seriously unimpressed if the person next to me told me that it would be nice to share and I should "Give the nice man a turn. Here, you can read this paper instead"!

I have far more of a problem with parents who think it is perfectly acceptable for their children to take my kids' things & then get all irate when I object ('oh he's only trying to share' ... bollocks he's helping himself to my son's bucket/ball/car/bike ... that's not sharing). Or the little darlings who stand an inch away from my 2yos face staring at her until she gives up her bucket ... wtf? I would not tolerate mine behaving like that. Guess they are the parents who sit on their arses while their kids terrorise the park

My children are very good at turn taking - I have one with ASD & it is a skill we work hard on - but I don't expect them, & I would force them, to 'share' as the OP describes.

So OP YABU.

I guess my reactions are:
Child A has something Child B wants.
A isn't playing with it.
If B asks for it, and A accepts = "Good sharing, A! Thank you for asking politely, B!"
If B asks for it, and A screams 'noo! it's mine!' = not sharing. "A, why don't you let B have a turn with your bucket/ball"
If B snatches it = not sharing. "B, don't snatch, that's not yours. Ask A if you can borrow it."
If B snatches it when A is playing with it - definitely not sharing. "B,that's not nice! That belongs to A!"
Same applies to adults.
If I bring a box of chocolates into work and offer them around = sharing.
If someone sees them on my desk and asks if they can eat one, and I say yes = sharing
If someone sees them on my desk, snatches them away and eats the entire box = rude.
If I scarf them in full view of my slavering colleagues and say "They're MINE and you can't have one! Ha!" = rude (tempting as it may be sometimes)

I think the OP has been given a bit of a hard time.

BUT

I just let the children fight it out. Mine are usually a long way from me on the beach and if they take something of someone elses then usually no-one can work out who their mother is, especially if I quickly look the other way.

I couldn't give a monkeys if my children's toys are played with by other children either. They all have to just figure it out for themselves imo and learn how to negotiate.

Grown ups on the otherhand, need to learn to chill a bit on the beach.

kungfu that parent was just bloody rude, i would never let my kids do that.

and to the lady whose little boy got upset about the bike, i get my kids to ask, sometimes they may pick something up before asking if i am not close enough to stop them (with 5 to watch) but i would immediately say to them to give the bike back as they havent asked and the child is obviously upset.

like i say i encourage mine to share and to ASK if they want to play with something and i will just distract them etc if they child doesnt want to share, same as i would if mine didnt want to share its not forced.

and i certainly wouldnt let them pester or snatch.

and starlight yes kids do need to learn to sort things out but 3 is imo a bit young to do so and i wouldnt let my kids fight with a strangers child in the park/beach, they squabble amongst each other and i decide whether or not to intervene, often its not necessary and they sort it out themselves, and sometimes with friends, if BOTH parents are there and we agree they can be left to sort it out, but you cant make that assumption if you dont know the parents.

The OP did ask her child to give it back.
And if someone takes your child's prescious bucket, it's much better to teach them to say: Can i have my bucket back, please? - rather than to accuse the other child of stealing.

i wouldnt have thought that the other little boy accused him of stealing it lol, he was obviously just upset so went and got his grandma to help, pretty good actually some three year olds would have just snatched it back or walloped the child with their toy!

i think the issue is that the op feels the grandmother was a bit snotty with her/tone/body language etc. like i said if it was me i would have apologised and encourged my child to ask if the other child wanted to play/share, if not no big deal we would do something else.

and if i was the gradmother i would have been understanding that sometimes unless you have eyes int he back of your head a 3 yr old will pick up a disgarded toy and i would have encouraged my child to share, but again no big deal if they didnt want to. simple really.

She may have asked him to give it back but he obviously didn't or he wouldn't have had to get his grandma to get it back for him. No point in asking him and then letting him ignore her.

'i certainly wouldnt get cross with a young child who has picked up one of my childs toys or demand it back straight away, i would say 'thats ...toy and can he have it back please' if my child didnt want to share, and if there was an issue i would speak to the childs parents pleasantly. it doesnt cost anything to be polite and have manners.'

I agree very much with this 4madboys. I wouldn't see it as 'theft' if a 1/2/3 year old took my childs bucket because they probably wouldn't understand all the concepts-they just see a bucket that is on its own. I would encourage my DC to let them have a go and then ask for it back.

Kids are always snatching off each other at toddler groups. I always confront DS and make him share if he takes a toy (he's alot better now he is nearer to 3) but also teach him it's not the end of the world if someone runs off with a toy, there is lots more to play with. Some mums go way overboard, it's embarassing. The older a child is, the more they understand that you should ask. But toddlers really can't be expected to at 1/2. Not really (by a million miles) on par with a grown adult stealing an ipad!!!