to think other mums are shit at teaching sharing

[tifflins]

My children are no angels. My parenting is far from perfect, but I do try (really hard) to teach my 3 year old DS to share his toys, not only with friends who visit our home, but strangers in the park or whatever. He finds the whole sharing concept pretty annoying tbh but I persevere. Situation today whereby my son 'borrowed' another little boys' bucket at the splash pool. The other little boy got upset and just as I was telling my DS to give the bucket back, the little boy ran off and told his grandma that a nasty monster had 'stolen' his bucket. The grandma came over at the exact time my DS was (finally) giving back the bucket and said to me in an exasperating tone and heavy sarcastic sigh 'thank you' (as if I was colluding with my DS to steal another boys toy). The boy took his bucket back and promptly dismissed and didnt play with it. Another situation on holiday with friends showed me that my friends' sons toys belonged to him and him alone, but my DS toys were supposed to be shared with this other little boy. At no point on the holiday did she encourage her son to share his toys, despite me bending over backwards to get my DS to share. I mean, for fucks sake, whats wrong with some people?! Anybody elses thoughts on this would be great.

I think the problem here is that the OP's ds has had sharing drummed into him so much that he feels more entitled to others property than they are - hence the taking. DD is good at sharing - I encourage her to share, tell her it's more fun and people will often share things with you if you share with them but I wouldn't force her (I've never been a a position where I would have had to).
If she went and helped herself to something of someone elses without asking I would make her give it back (although she knows that isn't acceptable and I would be surprised if she did).

I wanted to come back and add, that I do encourage my children to share. I point out that it would make the other person happy, and if they are not using something it's fine if somebody else borrows it.
But I wouldn't make them share if they really, really didn't want to

Whether the bucket was discarded or not once it transpired it belonged to someone you should have made your son give it back straight away.

Those of you who make distinctions between sharing with people you know and 'random strangers', do you think your children understand the difference? I am not sure that my DC at 2-3 got that they had to share at preschool but that wasn't necessary at the sandpit.

I'm not being sarky, genuinely not sure as I've always worked on the basis that anything that my DS takes out with him into communal areas/sandpits/preschools = fair game. If it's something you don't want to share, it stays at home.

Ok, think of it this way, you are sitting on rug, reading a magazine, other mum comes up and snatches it out of your hand.

How would you feel about that? Still feel like children should be made to share?

Yep mine knew the difference at 2 and does now at 3.

I think you're being a bit hard on the OP and a bit anally retentive--

Toddlers do "borrow" each others things - I don't classify that as "stealing" - provided the "borrower" realises it's not their toy to keep and gives it back, what the problem?

Or you put it down for 2 mins to go get a drink, when you come back, lo! it is nowhere to be seen. i'd be mighty pissed off if that happened!

Cristinadellapizza - that's not always a policy that can work. If you go to the beach, do you not take any buckets or spades just because you don't want to share them?

The OP's child didn't snatch the bucket - it was discarded. Perhaps a better analogy would be picking up and reading a discarded paper or magazine on a train or summat?

Don't think that analogy works missbeehiving. People regularly discard (for good) papers and magazines on the train and it is common knowledge that they have been discarded. A bucket in a sandpit is obviously not discarded for good. It clearly belongs to someone who will want it back at some point (unlike the paper)

You son did just take what he wanted

He's small, there's still plenty of time for him to learn he needs to ask first (and work out whether it's a share toy (belongs to the pool) or a non share toy (belongs to another child). There's no need to be so defensive.

The other little boy is not obliged to share with your son & it's not healthy to make your son share all of his things with strangers if he doesn't want to.

As for the friends on holiday - why did you put up with this?

Hi tifflins - haven't read whole thread but can certainly sympathise.
I worked a lot with young children before having two of my own, so was very used to a huge part of the job being to get all the children to share, think of others feelings, not fight or hit back, and to "use their words" (but only the nice ones )
So, it really was quite a culture shock when I started going to parent and toddler groups and how everyone had to tip-toe around the children's behaviour so as not to offend another parent with their PFB !
So tempting to step in like in the old days, especially when parents too busy chatting to notice what their DC was up to !
And so when the intervention is along the lines of "Oy ! Can your DC give that back to my PFB - he had it first you know !"

We take loads Oggy but we live at the seaside so we have a surfeit. :) DS is not allowed to take anything precious that he doesn't want to share to places where he might want to play with other kids.

TBH I think toys in sandpits are a pain in the fucking arse but I bet this thread'll be 100 posts by morning.

If people just took stuff they didn't mind sharing or nothing at all then there wouldn't be all this shit. If you don't want other kids playing with it, don't take it.

Cristinadella - The boy in the op obviously wanted his bucket back - do you think the OP's ds should have just been able to keep it indefinitely? If someone wants their stuff back you give it back and if your child won't then you should bloody make them!

Cristinadell - good for you that you have so much that it doesn't matter if some gets taken by others to play with. Not everyone has a huge supply of spare buckets and spades.

If a child goes to the beach /sandpit with a single bucket and spade and they put it down for a minute (for whatever reason) I think it's fair enough that it should be there for them to be able to start playing with again when they're ready. If they are happy for a stranger to borrow it then fine, but if they want to keep it available to play with themselves I really can't see how that is so wrong.

I don't get how the bucket scenario is about other mothers not teaching sharing. Your child took something that belonged to someone else. The someone else got upset and went to tell his gran. Seems pretty normal behaviour to me. Small children aren't going to think beyond "That's mine. He took it!" They aren't going to stop and think "But do I really want to play with it now? Is this a pressing issue? Shall I wait and see how the situation pans out?"

Teaching sharing at that age has to be pretty basic - it is about not snatching things off others, waiting for your turn, letting someone else have a go if it is a communal thing and others are waiting etc. You can't really complain about a small child not wanting something that belongs to him to be taken away by a stranger - especially if the stranger keeps it long enough for him to have to go and get an adult to intervene.

2 year-old DS is generally quite good at sharing, but got upset at the weekend because another little girl was picking up his toy cars. I had to keep reassuring him that she wasn't going to keep them for good.

Oggy - rather depends on what kind of sandpit you frequent.

It's sods law though innit - someone else's toys are always more interesting than your own? As long as they're not snatching it and give it back when asked then, no problem.

Agree with Cristina though - probably wouldn't take something that would cause a big deal if it did go awol.

I guess I take the view you should ask or wait to be offered rather than take and leave the owner to have to ask for it back. We are all different though

This is so exciting - only expected 3 replies!

By the same token, if DS starts playing with something that belongs to someone else and they aren't happy, he has to give it back. But never take anything that is precious

Cristina are you saying you make your ds share anything he takes out but you also make him give other stuff back? Does he not find that very unfair?
I don't think there is anything of dd's that she would consider to be 'not precious'.

I'm not really seeing the unfairness SHPP?

You aren't talking about sharing OP, you are talking about not making a fuss if something of yours is taken or justifying taking something that belongs to someone else without asking by saying "well, you weren't using it and I'll give it back when I am done."

Sharing the toys at playgroup, which don't belong to any one particular child, or learning to wait you turn for the slide at the park is one thing.

But the right thing to do if your child takes something from another (or takes something that belongs to someone else, even if they are not using it) is to give it back and explain to your child that "X had it first, you can play with it when he is finished" or "that belongs to X, you must ask before you play with it."

You say you'd lend your friend your car OP. But how would you feel if she just dipped into your handbag for your keys and just took it without asking? Or if some random mum at the swimming pool 'borrowed' it for an hour because you weren't driving it at the moment?

To you it's just a plastic bucket. To the toddler your son took it from it might be as valuable as your car.