to have no idea what to say to PG friend who is having her third boy?

[LittleOneMum]

One of my very best friends has two boys, aged 1 and 4. I have two DCs too, same ages, but a DS (4) and DD (1). It was really nice being pg at the same time, our kids are close and until now, all well.
However, when we were both pg with DC2, she was desperate for a girl. Had a name all picked out, often spoke of organising her wedding day, etc. I was very relaxed and in my heart of hearts probably wanted another boy (but never said this).
Of course, scans showed she was having a boy and I was having a girl and she was pretty upset for a while. But she got over it and she loves her two boys and tbh my DD is pretty tomboy like so far...
Anyway, we've decided to stick with 2, and she decided to have a 3rd DC and this afternoon she rang me in tears to say that her scan showed it was a 3rd boy. She was beside herself with pain. I was totally rubbish, I didn't know what to say and although she is too nice to say so, I could so feel she was thinking "it's OK for you, you have a DD".
bloody blinking turnips what am I going to do? AIBU just to say nothing? I know that long term she will love her son, but she is in pain now and I am her friend. AAAAAARGH.

Thanks duckdodgers I was worried it was all a bit garbled.

I hope the OP's friend doesn't read this thread though. It won't help her one bit to see some of the replies.

Tell her that I had a DD after two DSs, and my DD is currently dressed in boys clothes (her choice!), practicing her jumps over ramps in the garden. She will not wear a dress for love nor money and has told me in no uncertain terms she is never getting married. Pink tutus do not exist in this house.

So close, yet so far!

I think this issue raises a lot of feelings in posters so will polarise views. I don't think it's a bad representation of MN at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I think that so many people have clicked it suggests that it's a subject women feel strongly about. Any subject that strong is going to have some views considered harsh - such is the way we are.

I was feeling very ranty yesterday which really isn't like me and I hope I explained that way up thread (twas the bastard PMT) and now I have read the whole thread I haven't seen anything that upsets me or that I've winced at. I just see alot of women being honest about their personal take on the subject. I don't want a MN that is beige and "there there hun" I want a MN that can debate such contentious issues and where posters are free to speak up against the "there there hun" grain.

This thread hasn't been a bunfight like so many others recently and it's been an interesting read.

It's really depends how cynical you are about the human race. Tethersend has rightfully pointed out that PND/AND always deserve help and support.

However many posters, myself included, aren't convinced that gender disappointment always originates in PND or a pre-existing psycological or emotional difficulty. Which is where the more, erm, vitrioliccommentary comes in.

Really Pinot ? opposing views and debate are all good I agree

lots of comments on this thread made me wince though

As an older woman who was pregnant when there were no scans at all so no possibility of knowing the sex of a child before birth I am puzzled why people should even want to do so. A baby is a baby after all. Among my contemporaries the attitude was always one of just praying it was healthy, as you had no way of knowing beforehand. Occasionally you would hear of a preference but it was very much by the by.

I hope this doesn't sound insensitive - I certainly don't mean it to be - but I wonder if these extreme reactions about 'wrong' sex are a) the result of technology making it possible to know beforehand and b) the result of a societal shift over the last century towards 'it's not fair' and away from 'who said life was fair anyway?' oh dear, that will get me flamed Hey, I'm an old bat: what would I know?

But sorts, quite a few people have posted accounts of their friends or partners being rejected by their mothers for being the 'wrong sex'. I know of someone whose mother did the same, and he is 47. I don't think this is a recent phenomena; I just think discussing it is.

Maybe you're right tethers. As I said, what would I know?

Tethers and TakeThisOne's posts are heartfelt and enlightening.

As someone who's been through infertility I once couldn't abide hearing about any form of gender disappointment.

After reading a long-running thread about someone on here going through it who was clearly suffering a terrible and even life-threatening ante-natal (and then carrying on into post-natal) depression, I have changed my mind.

Sometimes, imo, those who express gender disappointment are doing so out selfishness. I longed for any baby and know there are many, many women in that situation still and it is hard to hear people whine that they want a girl instead of a boy pretty much 'just because'.

But sometimes, gender disappointment is part of a serious depression. Not always, no, but how can we judge if we don't know that particular case? If this woman is saying she's in serious pain about this, then perhaps as Tethers is suggesting it's because she's ill and not in entirely rational mind.

Mild disappointment is normal for some people. Crushing upset surely suggests there's a bit more going on?

OP, you sound like a good friend.

Oh, some of the posts on this thread make me feel very sad. Can we not try to have a bit of compassion for a woman who is clearly having a tough time, whether or not we agree that what she is feeling is valid?

FWIW, when I first read the OP, I'm ashamed to admit that my immediate (and very fleeting) reaction was along the lines of 'oh cop on, and be thankful for what you have, OP's friend'. However, I know that this is an irrational response, based on my personal experience of having had 4 miscarriages, the last of which was in Jan 2010, and being unable to get pregnant since (for which there is no apparent medical reason). But really, what does my personal experience have to do with how the OP's friend is currently feeling?

Yes, it is very easy to say that the OP's friend should be thankful for what she has. Yes, those of us who have suffered pregnancy loss have experience of how much worse it can be. Is it really a case of playing pain top trumps though? For example, I could compare myself to someone who has suffered say, 10 miscarriages and a stillbirth, or my Gran, who suffered a number of miscarriages and then lost her youngest child when he was only 18 years old, and think, 'well, I'm better off than that person'. Does / should that make a difference to my personal pain?

The OP's friend feels how she feels. It is not for any of us to decide the validity of her pain. Does anyone really believe that she wants to feel the way she is feeling? Or that she is not also suffering horrible guilt due to the way she is feeling?

As someone said upthread, there is not a finite number of pregnancies / babies. The OP's friend feeling the way she does has no impact on my likelihood of getting pregnant. Whilst, given my personal circumstances, I may find it difficult to understand what she is feeling, that does not mean that she is not entitled to feel it.

OP, in answer to your original question - all you can do is be supportive of your friend, listen to her, and point out the positives of having 3 boys. Also, I would like to thank Tethers and others (sorry, cannot remember all of the names off the top of my head) who shared their experiences. It has been an eye-opener for me, and I think very brave, given the nasty 'tell her to fuck off', 'how ridiculous', 'fuck off freak mate' (paraphrasing here) type responses there have been on this thread.

Sorry, that was a very long, rambling, and possibly nonsensical post. Very tired and have had a couple glasses of wine!!!

Shadows what a lovely compassionate post. I hope it all gets better for you too, you sound lovely.

To all the negative"tell her to get a grip" posters.

If this was your friend I would imagine / hope you would not act in the way you are telling OP to act. If so, the you are not true friends, The OP said this is her dear friend,and like any good friend she feels/understands her friends pain even if she does not agree that the reasoning is right.

Just because this lady is not your friend does not make her feelings any less valis than if she was.
WTF has compassion gone these days.

Shadow A lovely considerate post, enjoy your wine and aI ditto what helpmabob says about hoping it all gets better for you too.

valid

Tell her to be grateful she has a healthy baby in womb! Tell her to read cupofteas story on another thread and then think oh a boy! I`d rather a girl! I have two boys, one disabled - the elder and I was just so grateful after a terrible, dangerous 2nd pregnancy to walk out of the hospital with a healthy but prem babybaby who is now a healthy 16 yr old!

Yes, but I think I vote for Shadow. I remember too well the well meaning comments telling me to be grateful for one DS when I desperately, desperately wanted him to have a sibling and not to have an only child.

it's not rational though is it?

we are all grateful for our healthy children, but other issues might cloud our feelings about their gender.

i have 2 boys and 1 girl. my sister, who i am very close to had her 4th boy 12 days ago. our mother died 16 years ago. we had crapper than crap men in our family.

my sister wanted a girl. i wanted her to have a girl. that's not a crime. that's a feeling. you're allowed to have those. it doesn't mean that she doesn't love and adore her son, just that she wanted that mother/daughter relationship - even if that relationship was a fantasy, a dream - why is it wrong to dream?

you can be really thankful and a bit sad at the same time.

I have never been bothered about having the same sex children. Just glad the second was healthy. My sister has 3 girls and a boy....doesn`t bother me at all that she has children of both sexes.

helpmabob and fit2drop, I would love to be in a position to claim that I am compassionate, considerate and lovely (and it's very nice of ye to say so). I have just learned the hard way what projecting my pain onto the experiences of others does (in short, cause bitterness, misery, and jealousy, while doing nothing to lessen my own suffering).

Just after my last MC, DP's brother and his partner announced their pregnancy. I hated them (again, very irrationally). Every time BIL's (for ease of communicating, I will refer to him as BIL, as he might as well be) partner mentioned morning sickness, swollen ankles, pregnancy related sciatica, etc, I wanted to tell her to shut the hell up and appreciate what she has. Finally, though, I realised that she didn't steal my pregnancy. She was just luckier than I. In the same way that pouring scorn on a pregnant woman for not responding 'appropriately' to her pregnancy doesn't make me any more pregnant, nor did my being jealous of BIL's partner's completely ordinary pregnancy experiences.

marriedinwhite, thank you, that is exactly the point that I am trying to illustrate. I could tell you to cop on, that you already have a child, etc, etc (not having a go, btw), but why would I? Your pain is real. You badly want another child. That is just as real as my longing for a first. And how the hell does anyone think that pointing out that you already have a DC (er, which I reckon you have noticed!!) will be of any help? Ridiculous. Comparative / competitive pain is always a bad idea, and completely misses the point.

Oh yes, helpmabob ans fit2drop, things are getting better, no babies as of yet, but DP and I are keeping busy and happy. And the wine is going down a treat . Sorry, have made this thread all about me, I just find it easier to relate to people when I can draw upon my own experiences.

she's aired her real feeling, and maybe won't with most other people (if she does though might need to get help). That's what you should be able to do with BFs. That you don't sympathise or empathise is another matter - and you can say that to her in a kind supportive way. That you don't get it, how she feels, and maybe that's because you have a DD

but really, all those people out there saying 'oh she should be grateful to have a baby etc' that's like being told when you find out you've been passed over for promotion 'well at least you've got a job'. Yes maybe, but it doesn't make you feel any less shit or devastated if for whatever reason that's what you were holding out for

what I have responded to on this OP is what the OP told us about the lady in question: that she wanted a girl right from the outset, before she became pregnant. That her disappointment with having a boy was therefore predictable.

W6mum - some jobs are better than others. All babies deserve to be loved just as much for who they are.

I do get that this is possibly some sort of mental illness that she needs help with and I do know that ante natal depression is real. But she did only get pregnant in order to have a girl so she has rather caused this problem herself. She should have got pregnant because she wanted another child full stop. In that case I'd have understood her hoping it was a girl before the scan and being a bit disappointed afterwards.

I have been "devastated" at scans before but that was because the baby was dead. I don't think you should be devastated to be having a boy.
Having said that, I do think she is grieving for the future with a daughter that she will never have. Her fantasy future that she has mapped out is a bit la la land but there is something in people's heads about the mother-daughter special relationship and she is sad that she won't have it. If that is the case, she will get over that and will love the new baby just the same when he comes.

There is so much more to a person than just their gender. Girls are not just about shopping, nice confidential chats, and frilly weddings.

Well said Kat2504.

i have a feeling that she only had this child for a girl and now the poor baby is going to have to live with the fact that his mum didnt actually want him. vv :( for him

Hello again

I cannot believe the traffic my post has generated, nor can I believe the opposing views. I am desperately sad for people who have suffered PND or gender disappointment. You all deserve to be treated with sympathy and patience.

So I went to see my friend (several times) over the weekend. I spoke to her very gently about gender disappointment/counselling because in my view, she is really bad at the moment - not just in a 'I've had a disappointment' way, but in a really dark place sort of way. Of course she knew she might be having a boy, but she said that she thought that she could cope it was, it's just now that the reality is here, she can't. She says she knows that she will love her boy and will get over it, but she says that needs to cry the disappointment of never having a girl out of her system. I held her hand, and offered my shoulder (and brought round a lot of chocolate). I told her that he three boys would be amazing and she would just have to be an utterly fantastic MIL...

Thanks and I mean this sincerely, to everyone who posted and gave me advice. I couldn't in my heart of hearts say 'get a grip' because I love that girl and she needed me. She didn't mention the wedding again ...

xx