to have no idea what to say to PG friend who is having her third boy?

[LittleOneMum]

One of my very best friends has two boys, aged 1 and 4. I have two DCs too, same ages, but a DS (4) and DD (1). It was really nice being pg at the same time, our kids are close and until now, all well.
However, when we were both pg with DC2, she was desperate for a girl. Had a name all picked out, often spoke of organising her wedding day, etc. I was very relaxed and in my heart of hearts probably wanted another boy (but never said this).
Of course, scans showed she was having a boy and I was having a girl and she was pretty upset for a while. But she got over it and she loves her two boys and tbh my DD is pretty tomboy like so far...
Anyway, we've decided to stick with 2, and she decided to have a 3rd DC and this afternoon she rang me in tears to say that her scan showed it was a 3rd boy. She was beside herself with pain. I was totally rubbish, I didn't know what to say and although she is too nice to say so, I could so feel she was thinking "it's OK for you, you have a DD".
bloody blinking turnips what am I going to do? AIBU just to say nothing? I know that long term she will love her son, but she is in pain now and I am her friend. AAAAAARGH.

Maybe she has a deep, burning desire to do the whole pink thing?

But not all girls like pink and lots of boys do!
It's all so stupid, a baby is just a baby, needing to be loved and cared for (that includes dressing it in any colour of clothing!)

I know that, you know that, but sadly some people really can't get past fixed ideas of gender.
It is really, really sad.

TurkeyBurgerThing I don't get people like this I really don't. You get what you're given! Fucking idiot

What a nasty comment and just sums up the "I don't get it so its wrong" mentality displayed here by some. I pity people who don't have the capacity to understand that feelings are not always rational and as black and white as some people seem to think they are or should be. If they were we would be robots - not humans.

Of course gender shouldn't matter - but it does. Of course people should be grateful for what gender they "get". Lifes sad at times and unfair - and I understand to someone who has fertility problems this must seem wrong - but thats just life isnt it.

Ive got 3 boys and didnt feel devastated at DS3s scan - but I can understand why some people might. Its all the crap you get spouted at you when you have boys "a daughters a daughter for all your life, a sons a son until he takes a wife" type thing - I dont believe this but I can see how it may be reading some of the nasty comments from DILs where who cant wait to abandon their husbands Mothers.

Perhaps pointing her to the miscarriage or infertility threads on here might help the silly spoiled woman come to terms with her "devastation".

I concur with eurochick : (

Duckdogers, some emotional responses are irrational, yes. But irrational emotional responses don't need pandering to. They need a good does of reality to neutralise them.

So rather than, "Poor, love another boy? How unlucky, you must be in so much pain", how about something like, "You're a grown woman, you understand how basic genetics works, right?"

I hope when her third son is born he doesn't grow up with the sense that he was a big disappointment.

"Fucking idiot"

"Total clown needs a slap!"

"silly spoiled woman"

Just to clarify- are these gems also aimed at me and the others on the thread who have talked about their own experiences? Or just the OP's friend?

And could you (once again) explain to me why you wouldn't say these things about a woman with PND who claims not to love her child?

Cheers.

Shes in pain? Why, have they identified an issue with the baby?

Oh, haha, just seen its because shes having another boy. I thought something was actually wrong.

Tethers - PND is different because being upset at having a boy is empty, vacuous and pretty distasteful. PND is none of those things - HTH

PND is an illness. Being "in pain" about the idea of having a child who isn't your preferred gender is silly and spoiled whether you are the woman talked about in the OP or someone posting on this thread.

Difficult to read this after the news I got yesterday.

Best friend had a baby boy at 38 weeks in 2009 who despite being healthy suffered a neonatal death :(.

It has taken her a long time to get pg again and has found out she is having a girl due in Jan. Yesterday we found out at her 20 wk scan that she has two major markers indicating strongly of a congenital defect or syndrome such as Edwards.

This time in a week it is likely that she'll be planning her daughters funeral too to be buried with her brother. Turns out that mother nature is a bit of a bitch.

Tell your friend to read this post, it might just give her some clarity. Everyones problems are relative but I really think she needs to gain some perspective - big time.

I think some people on here are being very harsh. Your friend feels what she feels and as her friend, it's your duty to support her.

Firstly I would empathise eg 'Oh sweetheart, I know you really wanted a girl. I can see this is difficult for you."

Then I would gently focus on all the positives of an all boy family eg the boys will be like a little tribe; a girl may have been a bit left out; she's already got lots of skills in dealing with boys; boys always love their mothers to bits, etc, etc.

I think your dear friend had convinced herself she was having a girl so this news would have come as a shock. Of course with time she'll accept that she's having another boy and fall in love with him just as much as she has with her other two boys.

I have two boys and am really happy that they are such good friends and that I get to see the world of boy. But I can understand the yearning for a girl.

Please be gentle with her- we all know that those raging pregnancy hormones can make the best of us go nuts! You sound like a really caring friend. Best of luck with it all.

There are some really sad stories on here but the projection and 'suck it up bitch' mentality is incredibly unfair. The thread title says what it means, it doesn't pretend to be about anything else. The OP's friend does not need to count her blessings because everyone else has a more painful situation, she needs to count her blessings once she has come to terms of the end of her fantasy. Yes, her pain in the grand scheme of things is not hugely grand but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The people on that programme were shocking (8 boys and wanting a girl). One of them actually had a stepdaughter who stayed often who wasn't mentioned at all. How awful for those poor boys who saw their mother weeping as it was 'bad news'. Also on Ingender forums apparantly there is a board for people who terminate due to it being the wrong sex. These people comisserate with each other if they get the wrong sex.

I feel sorry for the mother. (I'm not worried for her children, I'm sure she'll love her new baby just as much as her other two boys.) I'm really shocked at all the vitriol on this thread. Yes, of course we all know she's bloody lucky to get three healthy children and that she'll hopefully never know the agony of a genuinely 'bad' scan result. But she's suffering from a real, acknowledged condition. She needs understanding. I'm sure she loves her boys and will love her third boy.

OP, if I were you, I'd try to be there and get her to talk her (irrational) disappointment out. She'll get over it/herself but she needs to acknowledge her disappointment, irrespective of how unpalatable other people might find it. (With regards to the possible mentality of a woman who says she wanted to plan her putative daughter's wedding, I don't think we can really draw conclusions. Sounds ick at first glance but there again, it might be shorthand for wanting a daughter to do woman/girl things with. Men often say they want to do boy things with their boys. It might be a bit gender-polarised but a lot of people feel like this.)

I have two boys, btw, and will admit to a slight bias in favour of wanting a girl the second time I was pregnant. I love both my boys and we won't be having any more children. I think the reasons why women sometimes yearn for a daughter are complex and involved, and not to be dismissed as 'pathetic', as so many on this thread are eager to do.

'But she's suffering from a real, acknowledged condition'
Not everyone agrees it is a 'condition'.

I do understand people hoping for one or the other but devastation is the wrong word. Same with pain.

Jellybeans, she's a bit unbalanced about this. It might be that she's a bit unstable generally, or that she has pre-natal depression (a lot of HCPs acknowledge this). I know that 'gender disappointment' isn't yet universally recognised.

I would take it all at face value, acknowledge that she's upset and, if I were a friend, try and help her away from the unbalanced way she feels at the moment. As opposed to slapping her briskly, telling her to get over herself and telling her she should be grateful, the spoiled bitch (as a lot of people on this thread would appear to advocate). I think she probably does know that she's very lucky to be having a third, healthy child.

hey hey hey. The woman is venting to her friend.

Who are we to judge?

She has approach her friend she feels safe with, and explores her hurt.
The friend needs advice how to deal, not for others to come down with judgements and recriminations.

I dont know what it is with Mn these days, when almost daily I read threads and think "not mumsnets finest hour".

I haven't read all of this: pg 1 miscarried at 17 weeks boy, pg 2 36 weeks bit early resulted in gorgeous ds, pg 3 miscarried at 12 weeks boy, pg 4 ds2 born at 27 weeks and died shortly thereafter, 51 weeks later came dd our only full term pg and a gorgeous girl. I couldn't believe how lucky I was to have delivered two children safely - eventually and I wouldn't want any children other than the two I have now (13 and almost 17). However, I would have done anything at one stage to have had, 1, 2, 3 or even 4 boys and actually never expected to get even two children let alone to express a preference about their gender. I still get a little sad when people innocently say "oh you are so lucky to have one of each and the boy first and then the girl" - little do they know.

I think your friend may be feeling genuine pain but I hope she isn't being insensitive enough to share it with those she doesn't know too well because 14 years ago I used to listen to such tales and be sympathetic and keep a grip and then cry all the way home from wherever I was.

Tethers I think you've spoken very well on this thread.

I have a boy, after previously losing a boy and then a girl within the space of eleven months.

In all three pregnancies I admit I had a bias towards wanting a girl. We didn't find out the sex at any of the scans because I worried that I would be disappointed at a scan but elated at the birth (if that makes sense).

In the first pregnancy, I wanted a girl because I have no real experience of baby boys, my friends with children all had girls at the time, and I was just a bit worried that I wouldn't know how to be a proper mum to a boy.

When we were told at the scan that the baby had died and that I would be induced two days later, none of those worries mattered. I just wanted the back. At that moment, they couldn't even tell us if he was a boy or a girl because of the position he was in, we had to wait for his birth and oddly, once he was born and we knew, in the middle off all the grief and pain I managed to feel embarrassed and ashamed at having wanted a girl and blamed myself a bit for making him feel he wasn't wanted.

In my second pregnancy I still hoped for a girl, this time because I was scared our son would feel he was being 'replaced' in some way, and I thought a girl would be less upsetting to him. Not rational at all, but still very real feelings. When she was born prematurely it was a relief to know she was a girl even though we also knew she would die very soon after her birth.

And in my third pregnancy I felt the same small bias towards having a girl, this time I think because we had seen and held our daughter but we hadn't been allowed to see or hold our son. So I felt that I had time with her to let her know I loved her and that I wasn't replacing her

And when LO turned out to be a boy it did come as a bit of a surprise (even though the woman who did our last scan gave the game away to me by looking when she said she wouldn't) to have a boy. During the labour I'd become so ill and confused I had somehow convinced myself I was back giving birth to my daughter and it took a few days for me to come out of that and realise that my baby was not a girl and was not about to die. I think we'd been home for over a week before that sank in.

And I wouldn't be without him now, wouldn't swap him for a girl or change him in any way.

What I do find hard is knowing that I won't ever have a mother-daughter relationship, even though I feel privileged to have a mother-son one.

All my pregnancies have been hard, more than once they could have killed me. I'm not brave enough to risk another loss and I'm not getting any younger. I am fairly certain we won't try again and if we did there are no guarantees of having a girl.

Although I can say with honesty than now I have my son, if I went on and had a football team of boys and no girl I would welcome them all.

It's great being the mother of a boy, I love it in ways I can't even describe.

But it does still hurt, knowing I won't have a living girl. And it's not about the weddings and pink frills, that was never my style anyway (and I doubt it's really your friend's either OP). The wedding is more than likely a metaphor for the bond she wanted with a daughter.

So I think what the others have said is right, you can be gentle with her feelings without indulging them.

I doubt she wants to feel this way and is probably feeling like a terrible person even though she can't help it.

I feel sorry for her and I think she's lucky to have a good friend who cares and wants to help.

"Tethers - PND is different because being upset at having a boy is empty, vacuous and pretty distasteful. PND is none of those things - HTH"

Right. So was I empty, vacuous and distasteful? Or was I suffering from antenatal depression, having an irrational reaction and in need of help? You decide. Or perhaps I was different because I (thought) I wanted a boy and was carrying a girl. A healthy girl. I wasn't ungrateful. I was a bloody wreck.

You understand that when a woman says she doesn't love or want her perfectly healthy baby (which she should be grateful for), she is likely to need help. When a woman is devastated- yes, devastated about having a healthy baby of the 'wrong' gender, she too clearly needs help, as such a reaction is not one of a healthy mind.

marriedinwhite 'I still get a little sad when people innocently say "oh you are so lucky to have one of each and the boy first and then the girl" - little do they know. I think your friend may be feeling genuine pain but I hope she isn't being insensitive enough to share it with those she doesn't know too well because 14 years ago I used to listen to such tales and be sympathetic and keep a grip and then cry all the way home from wherever I was.
'

I know how you feel as when I had DC 3&4 (twins) I then had 2 of each, having had a stillbirth the year before of my 3rd the same sex. People were forever saying, 'ah how perfect, 2 of each, you are the luckiest person,' etc. And i was extremely lucky. But I then felt abit sad as having 3 the same would have been lovely too. Of course many people didn't know about it so it wasn't their fault.

I also had 2 good friends with 2 boys who were 'desperate' for a girl. I did listen to them with sympathy etc. but couldn't really understand it as by then I had had 2 stillbirths and 2 miscarriages as well as other very traumatic life events. However, they both admitted that as long as it was healthy they didn't really mind. If they had mentioned pain or devastation i would have been very miffed. As it happened they eventually went on to have their girls.

She needs to get into the real world and stop expecting life to be a fairy tale. I have 3 boys and I am glad that each of them were born healthy. Some people can't have kids at all. She wouldn't get any sympathy from me and with that sort of attitude she shouldn't have got herself pregnant a third time. Shame on her behaviour!

Your friend IBU and should pull herself together.

takethisone - Im so very sorry for your losses and thank you for your heartfelt post about your feelings. I hope to that it can help some people here understand the reasons for wanting 1 sex over another are far more complex than just wanting a girl to dress up in pink for example.

I think you have hit the nail on the head saying What I do find hard is knowing that I won't ever have a mother-daughter relationship, even though I feel privileged to have a mother-son one. This really sums it up for me. You are also spot on when you say you doubt OPs friend wants to feel like she does, she needs to be able to talk through her feelings.

And as for being "ashamed" as someone has said - the only shame that should be felt are the nasty judgemental "fucking idiot" knee jerk type posters here. Im with you quint - this thread has seen some of the unnecessary nastiest comments Ive seen for a while.